I fully support protecting the habitat of these bears and I'm usually onside w/the enviros on most issues, but one thing I can't stand is the term "Spirit Bears". I gag a little each time I hear that term. So touchy feely... so damn marketable...

Thanks. I feel better now.

It would be interesting to hear from the professional pollsters on this question. Would such a film help or hurt the governing Liberals?

Remember, the Liberals have inherited from Social Credit, and share with the federal Reform/Tory party a group of hard-nosed, pro-business, pro-development voters. These people will react negatively and cynically to any demands for more protected areas or other environmental proposals, and in terms of their actual voter turnout they could be energized by such a film and the publicity surrounding it.

It could be that the Liberals will be laughing all the way to the polls as this film helps to motivate their base.

"Save the Spirit Bear" was the number one prioritized policy resolution at the lpcbc policy convention last November. Hopefully this resolution will be adopted by the lpc at the Montreal convention this November!

It was already in the provincial platform for the Federal Liberals, it probably doesnt need to go to federal convention

Budd, I'm not certain this is a hard-nosed, pro-business, pro-development issue. The people doing the logging just happen to be the Kitasoo First Nation.

Yet another version of the classic let’s stop logging everywhere theme song. Ho-hum; this tune is getting old.

"Remember, the Liberals have inherited from Social Credit, and share with the federal Reform/Tory party a group of hard-nosed, pro-business, pro-development voters. These people will react negatively and cynically to any demands for more protected areas or other environmental proposals, and in terms of their actual voter turnout they could be energized by such a film and the publicity surrounding it."

So we gather from this that the NDP are touchy feely soft warm hearted pro-environment souls who can do no bad for BC? Give it a rest.

The activity in logging in that area is contracted out by the local First Nations, not by any so called money burning, cigar smoking fat guy in a big leather chair in a Howe Street office.

You're also forgetting that the actual logging is mostly done by IWA/Steelworker union guys, the kind of guys that swing the metal lunchbucket to work.

The Kitsoo Nation is undertaking helicopter logging.

There's no development going on up there on the Coast simply because there's no roads up there.

what's really funny is google's decision to accompany this story with advertisements for bear hunting tours. you've gotta love keywords.

Thank-you Sean for addressing this important issue.

I know people reading this are going to think: 'same old greedy environmentalists wanting more conservation', but I urge you to take pause and reflect on our track record. We're not career activists nor are we anti-logging - we're a volunteer run, youth coalition of concerned individuals from all walks of life, of all political stripes. We hope to put ourselves out of business.

We're a one issue organization that has focused on one goal: sustaining the gene pool of the white Kermode or spirit bear and never once have our goal posts changed. And throughout our decade long fight, we have always attempted to be positive, engaged, and pragmatic - presenting a counter-intuitive case built not only on science, but on sound economics.

When the government challenged us to find an alternative to logging if we wanted further conservation, we answered the call with the production of our animated movie. We had hoped – and still do – that its profits will be invested into coastal communities, far exceeding the potential of logging one watershed no larger than 200 times the size of Stanley Park. As a result, aside from our large membership base, we enjoy the support of more than 80% of British Columbians and high profile figures from former Premier Bill Vander Zalm to UN Messenger of Peace Dr. Jane Goodall.

However, as trees fall and the stakes for the Kermode grow higher, we must take a stand for this bear: our provincial mammal, the likely mascot of the 2010 Games, and, truly. Canada’s Panda. We would never ask the BC government to run a budget deficit to save the Kermode, but we cannot be asked to run an ecological deficit in the last place where we, as a society, have the chance to ensure the genetic viability of this globally important creature. So if there is a chance releasing our movie in 2009 will help get the decision makers to honour their word, we will absolutely consider it. We have nothing left to lose…except the Kermode.

It's so good to read here that even former Socreds acknowledge the Liberals as little more than retuned Socreds.

Although the song sheet is pretty much a copy of that old faithful the Bennetts counted on for eons.

Despite that, it's interesting to see the same old, same old, effort to smear the enviros with the potential rage of the lunchbuckets and the First Nation mix must have some old Socreds just about wetting their pants as they wait and dream of a stand off that will actually benefit the right.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I now look at these confrontations as a means of actually sorting the wheat from the chaff. Once we get by all the angst, loathing and hyperbole, we tend to have real, serious debates on these issues and I think that's about the best that can happen.

Forget the spin doctors, give me an ugly potential and I'll just wait for reason to prevail eventually. Of course that requires getting the public to pay attention and I think that's about to happen.

Simon Jackson should be commended for marketing a Mutant Bear to enough people to have a movie made about it and for it to be named the Official Mammal of BC.

However the Spirit Bear is not a separate species it's just a god damn white black bear. So go ahead and cut down the forest.

"So we gather from this that the NDP are touchy feely soft warm hearted pro-environment souls who can do no bad for BC? Give it a rest.

The activity in logging in that area is contracted out by the local First Nations, not by any so called money burning, cigar smoking fat guy in a big leather chair in a Howe Street office.

You're also forgetting that the actual logging is mostly done by IWA/Steelworker union guys, the kind of guys that swing the metal lunchbucket to work."

Century Sam was one of the publicity characters that Wacky Bennett used for one of his Centennials, of which there seemed to be an never ending supply. Now someone called "Socred Sam" wants to show us that analyzing all issues in terms of the social pigeon holing of various voters is alive and well. In the mind of the Socred/BC Liberal strategist, there is no general public, just stereotypical groups of voters, ... the cigar puffing tycoon, the Joe Lunchbucket union worker, the touchy feely hippie tree hugger, etc., etc.

Well, here's a caricature I happen to think is fair and accurate. I think that most Socred/BC Liberal strategists can be reasonably pictured as smirking smart-asses who are shallow and cynical, materialistic and consumerist, but a good twenty years behind the times. Don't believe me? Take another look at Sam's contribution.

Spirit bear... don't make me puke! This degenerate animal has taken up more valuable public policy oxygen than it deserves. Please, someone organize the long overdue spirit bear BBQ. It’s time Darwin’s theory is put into play and this albino trespasser on the public’s forest is peppered up en masse (medium rare) on an organic whole wheat Kaisers with BC microbrew BBQ sauce.

According to the Victoria Times Colonist today, the fellow, when he was a kid, was assured by Gordon Campbell that he would protect the white bears. Now it seems he is a bit older so wrote the Premier and told him he has broken his promise. Oh well, if Gordon breaks his word now and again, what's new about that. And of course since some band is logging, the so called "keepers of the earth" are right in there making money, and telling us the white spirit bears aren't close to their trees. Gosh do you think there may be a shortage of white bears for Gordy to show the nice tourist coming to watch the 2010 extravaganza? Which is the next deal that Gordo will either slash or tear up?

Cut it, pave/development it and then tax it.

Hmmm.... bear steak!

Why has the Spirit Bear Youth Coalition been given access to the Liberal Party Membership List? I think this is a huge privacy issue. I am a Liberal but I don't have much sympathy for a policy resolution that was only put up at the top because of a bunch of youth who were brought to convention to build numbers who later decided to hand over ballots to a bunch of idiots who don't know how to prioritize policy at all.

People are sleeping in the streets and children are going hungry in our country. I don't think saving a bear is more important than any of the above, not to mention countless other priorities.

The Liberal Party really messed up again.

"Well, here's a caricature I happen to think is fair and accurate. I think that most Socred/BC Liberal strategists can be reasonably pictured as smirking smart-asses who are shallow and cynical, materialistic and consumerist, but a good twenty years behind the times. Don't believe me? Take another look at Sam's contribution."

I think some NDPers are like Budd Campbell here.
Old dusty thinkers who are living in the 1970's
way of thinking in terms of environmentalist issues.

Don't believe me and Sam? Take a look at Bud's
contributions.

"I think some NDPers are like Budd Campbell here.
Old dusty thinkers who are living in the 1970's
way of thinking in terms of environmentalist issues."

Posted by Louis Liberal on September 21, 2006

ROTFLMAO!

"Old dusty thinkers"? Tell me, ... what on earth is "dusty" thinking? And what are "environmentalist issues"? Are those the same as environmental issues?

I think some NDPers are like Budd Campbell here.
Old dusty thinkers who are living in the 1970's
way of thinking in terms of environmentalist issues."

Posted by Louis Liberal on September 21, 2006

"ROTFLMAO!"

Budd. Take it easy. Down boy, down.

"Old dusty thinkers"? Tell me, ... what on earth is "dusty" thinking?

Thinking that is so old, it's been gathering dust on the shelf for years. Example, the socialist ideology put forth by your comrades at the national NDP convention in Quebec City.

Svend Robinson is an old dusty thinker.

And what are "environmentalist issues"? Are those the same as environmental issues?

Not nessesarily. "Environmentalist issues" could
include stopping all logging

Stopping logging in Clayoquot Sound as advocated by your friend Svend Robinson is "environmentalist". Enacting sustainable development for forestry in the area is environmental.

Budd take some time out to do other things other than write to an issues forum.

According to the Federal Liberals, Gordon Campbell is on their National Executive.

http://liberal.ca/executive_e.aspx

Either the federal Grits don't know their party structure or did the Premier buy a membership?

Louis, you're a laugh, but I do think you deserve credit for cobbling together a series of ostensible comeback lines. Your fake semantics around 'environmental' and 'environmentalist' is the kind of thing I would expect from John Lovett on SNL.

"Louis, you're a laugh, but I do think you deserve credit for cobbling together a series of ostensible comeback lines. Your fake semantics around 'environmental' and 'environmentalist' is the kind of thing I would expect from John Lovett on SNL."

Budd you've got the right idea.

Your TV is lonely. Go watch it.

Well Louis, you've got a point. Most TV shows, even the sitcoms and soaps, are geared to a higher intelligence level than some of the comments one finds on internet chat boards.

BTW, have you ever thought about buying a dictionary so that you could learn the real difference between the terms "environmental" and "environmentalist"?

Main Entry: en·vi·ron·men·tal·ist
Pronunciation: -t&-l&st
Function: noun
1 : an advocate of environmentalism
2 : one concerned about environmental quality especially of the human environment with respect to the control of pollution

Main Entry: en·vi·ron·men·tal·ism
Pronunciation: -"vI-r&(n)-'men-t&-"li-z&m, -"vI(-&)r(n)-
Function: noun
1 : a theory that views environment rather than heredity as the important factor in the development and especially the cultural and intellectual development of an individual or group
2 : advocacy of the preservation, restoration, or improvement of the natural environment; especially : the movement to control pollution
Can include advocacy sustainable development.

Spirit Bear and Gordon Campbell. Check out the Reaside cartoon this morning and see Gordo's plan to keep the bear thing alive.

As you can see, Louis, your dictionary doesn't support your earlier usage.

"As you can see, Louis, your dictionary doesn't support your earlier usage."

As you can see Budd you don't know spoofing when you read it.

You're too serious Budd. Lighten up.

This isn't school.

Budd, your lawn mower needs to be used.

I am at a loss for words to describe the disgust I feel for those who dismiss the very noble nature of what Simon Jackson has done--particularly in such a few short years.

While I certainly could never pass myself off as an environmentalist, the Spirit Bear Co-alition is truly that--a co-alition in it's truest sense, and a very worthy one at that. How many movements can lay claim to this? Few, if any. Simon Jackson should be commended for uniting a broad cross-section of people in common cause.

I don't know what the hell is going on in Victoria as of late. First the Olympic budget denials, then the school seismic upgrade "reprioritization" and know backtracking on these bears.

Lucky there's no three strike in a fortnight rule.

I am at a loss for words to describe the hilarity and absurdity of the above instalment of Chairman Tsakumis's confused utterances.

I'm sorry but I have just had enough of the damn spirit bear. I was actually sympathetic to the cause until I suffered through the nauseating tv special on CTV. It's time for these youth to grow up and get real jobs. The first nations have lived up in that region for thousands of years and need to have the authority to make their own decisions over their territory. I believe it is disingenuous for these 'cadillac' enviros to tell the local people how to live their lives.

You're too serious Budd. Lighten up.

This isn't school.

Budd, your lawn mower needs to be used.

Posted by Louis Liberal on September 23, 2006

Louis is starting to remind me of a guy named Art. He used to run beer parlour discussion groups for the Socreds at the old Ritz Hotel, and was always full of anecdotes and so-called jokes. The jokes were usually a cover story for some sharp little political hook or another. I think Art later drank himself to death, but that's another anecdote, eh Louis?

budd cambell skunked ??????? ican,t believe it'''
i respect you bud , but it looks like this time socialism is past it,s before date,,,,,,,,,,
so tell me bud what went wrong, when did it all fall apart, i,d say 96, your best chance is rob fleming,, and a long shower,, as they say nothing like being sent to the cleaners,,,,,,,

As you well know, Glenn, the NDP was the victim of a hostile press gallery, just as some other parties and politicians have been. The reporters were furious that Mike Harcourt hadn't given them their share of the patronage. In particular they were angry that reporters who had stuck their necks out to oppose Social Credit were not getting government information officer jobs. Instead, people from unions were getting these jobs. That's why the press gallery wanted to, and did, bring down Mike Harcourt.

They gave Glenn Clark a chance, enough to win the election, but when he couldn't budge things on the jobs front (because the party had gotten to used to its treatment under Harcourt and Pollard), the reporters simply resumed their attacks.

That's the real reason why the NDP lost in 2001 by such a thumping margin. And the only reason.

Actually Keep-er-coming, I think you've confused all of us. Tsakumis' comments were actually correct. How come there are so many willing to take a shot at Simon Jackson? Maybe you are one of them and that's why you have to attack like a coward behind a fake name. Alex is bang on, as usual. The provincial government we voted for has become way too arrogant.

"As you well know, Glenn, the NDP was the victim of a hostile press gallery, just as some other parties and politicians have been. "

This is very funny. The NDP blames the media when things go wrong for them, but Budd and his buddies don't blame the same media (Vaugh Palmer and Michael Smyth) when they blame the BC Liberals when things go wrong for them and they
never did when things went wrong for Social Credit.

Was there any "blame the media!" cries from the NDP when things went bad for VanderZalm, and the
media correctly tore him apart?

Budd, it's an old line. Throw it it away.

"The reporters were furious that Mike Harcourt hadn't given them their share of the patronage."

Why should Harcourt had done that? He ran on a
platform of not giving special favours to people
in a Harcourt government.

"In particular they were angry that reporters who had stuck their necks out to oppose Social Credit were not getting government information officer jobs. "

Geezus, man do you actually believe that garbage of yours? Do you honesty think the political party or the government should 'reward' reporters for trashing their opposition??

Were you hoping for one of those spots?

What happened to going through the Public Service?

Information officers do not nessesarily have to
be out in the field reporters. Anyone who is
first year marketing or been at the riding level
as a volunteer for a year or so can do that job.

"Instead, people from unions were getting these jobs. That's why the press gallery wanted to, and did, bring down Mike Harcourt. "

And you were part of that, right?

Harcourt killed himself. He resigned over Bingogate. That's historical fact.

"They gave Glenn Clark a chance, enough to win the election, but when he couldn't budge things on the jobs front (because the party had gotten to used to its treatment under Harcourt and Pollard), the reporters simply resumed their attacks."

Right and Glennochio's mismanagement of BC Ferries and other mishaps didn't matter?

"That's the real reason why the NDP lost in 2001 by such a thumping margin. And the only reason.

There's more to the reasons why, Budd, but there's no sense in telling a die hard Dipper like yourself what the real reasons were.

There's more to the reasons why, Budd, but there's no sense in telling a die hard Dipper like yourself what the real reasons were.

Posted by Sam Spade on September 24, 2006

What I said is true, Sam. Yes, some of the media treatment of Bill Vander Zalm was unfair, and no, the NDP didn't complain about it at the time. The treatment of Harcourt and Clark was off the scale.

i allways thought the gang of 6 brought down harcourt,,sihota ,clark, miller,joy and 2 others, it was an inside job lead by glen clark, your hero budd,,,,,,,,,,,,,glenn

"What I said is true, Sam. Yes, some of the media treatment of Bill Vander Zalm was unfair, and no, the NDP didn't complain about it at the time. The treatment of Harcourt and Clark was off the scale."

The treatment of Harcourt and Clark was nothing compared to the deserved critical commentary of VanderZalm and the Social Credit caucus at the time by the media.

I would say that very little of the commentary of VanderZalm was unfair.

I should know I was heavily involved with Social Credit at the time and trust me there were things that were worse that the media never picked up on that VanderZalm's supporters did.

Life is tough being a Dipper and the media was
unfair to Clark and Harcourt?

Give it a rest, comrade.

The media responds to what it sees.