Has there even been a prime minister without a degree? Most have more than one degree.

- Harper - post-grad degree
- Martin - lawyer
- Chretien - lawyer
- Campbell - lawyer
- Mulroney - lawyer
- Turner - lawyer
- Trudeau - lawyer
- Clark - not a lawyer, but a degree!
- Pearson - degrees
- Diefenbaker - lawyer

I'm not sure about St. Laurent, King, Bennett but most likely had degrees of some sort or legal training. Meighen, probably. Laurier, surely.

I won't get into the 1800s but it's pretty clear that education and the prime ministership go hand in hand.

Why is Lefoka Kennedy's youth chair? Can anyone field this one?

St Laurant had a BA and law degree. Bennett had a law degree from Dalhousie. King had a BA, 2 MAs, a LLB and a PhD (the only prime minister with an earned doctorate). Meighen had a math degree.

I really couldn't care whether Kennedy has a degree or not. He came pretty close to graduating anyway. And the precedent of all previous PMs in recent memory having one or more post-secondary degrees doesn't mean a lot, although I think the law is a useful discipline to have some familiarity with before going into politics.

Now, the real question is, did John A. MacDonald have a degree? If Mr. Kennedy wants to be a truly great PM, perhaps he should take up drinking at a level comparable to that of Sir John A., eh?

Slow news day Sean?

Sir John A. did not have a university degree. At age 15, after attending grammar school and a private co-educational school, he began clerking for another lawyer, and was called to the bar six years later. That was a typical process by which young men became lawyers in his day.

Has there even been a prime minister without a degree? Most have more than one degree.

- Harper - post-grad degree
- Martin - lawyer
- Chretien - lawyer
- Campbell - lawyer
- Mulroney - lawyer
- Turner - lawyer
- Trudeau - lawyer
- Clark - not a lawyer, but a degree!
- Pearson - degrees
- Diefenbaker - lawyer

Degrees are good of course, but they aren't
the ticket for sound thinking.

One only has to look at Trudeau, Martin, Brian Mulroney and Kim Campbell as examples where having degrees don't mean that a Prime Minister
has good smarts.

As for lawyers, not all of them are sharp and smart.

The Kennedy bubble. Kennedy's support seems to exist in some weird bubble within the activist segment of the Party. This is good for Kennedy now but he is virtually unknown outside Ontario. Which brings us to his leadership qualities - how will he sell?

It would help to have a degree. He doesn't.
It would help to be bilingual. He really isn't.
It would help to have federal experience. He doesn't.
What exactly is his reason d'etre. Hard to figure out.

The offerings from Kennedy are very slim. Sounds good, but not very substantive.

His support lies in the ethnic communities with such heavy weights as Raymond Chan, Peter (Prem) Vinning, Parm Bains and Amar Randhawa.

I sure hope he doesn't limit himeself just to the ethnic communities...it could be tough sell in the rural areas for the Liberal Party.

The party needs renewal, and it should start in the rural regions first.

The fact that Coco is involved with Kennedy is reason enough for me not to support him. A friend of mine mentioned that the reason why he has stopted supporting Kennedy is because of the people he has around. My friend also believes that the people a candidate has supporting them is representative of the type of person the candidate.

Again, this is why I also refuse to support Dion. If this Party wants to seriously renew itself, it will clean itself out inside and out.

It would help to have a degree. He doesn't.
It would help to be bilingual. He really isn't.
It would help to have federal experience. He doesn't.
What exactly is his reason d'etre. Hard to figure out.

Posted by Adds Up on June 12, 2006 12:28 PM

Adds Up, ... could you perform a similar analysis on the Bob Rae candidacy? How about this:

It would help to have a degree. He does. He's a lawyer who practiced law several weeks longer than Svend Robinson.
It would help to be bilingual. He says he is. Isn't that enough?
It would help to have federal experience. He does. In a rival party.
What exactly is his reason d'etre. Impossible to figure out. Unless you ask Ujjal!

I could not agree with Pedro. In fact I don't see any renewal in this party. The very same people who put this party in this mess to begin with are leading supporters of each one of the candidates. I might just stay at home this time. The Liberals did not learn anything from the Tory mess of the last decade.

Peter, did you actually read what Pedro wrote?

I agree 100% with Pedro regarding both Kennedy and Dion. I have the same problems with the Cocos and Marks of this world.

We are in the middle of a painful renewal process and the liberal landscape will be changed completely.

I meant to write "I could not agree with Pedro more." It indeep is a painful renewal process.

Hey Pedro didn't you say the following about Kennedy

"BUT, having said that, I really do tip my hat off to Kennedy. I haven't met him personally, but I'm sure I would like him. The more and more I read of him, I'm realizing that he's the idealist-type. Perhaps it's his young age, but I think that he will bring so much to our Party in terms of renewal, raising our morale, bringing marginalized groups into the fold, maintaining our conscience etc. He definitely inspires me and give him a few more years of life experience and I hope to see him as our leader one day. In the meantime, support Iggy ;)"

Peter V,

I'm not just saying this, but for the longest time, I have never wanted to be a part of the Liberal party because of the people who were running the show out in BC. Since I joined the Ignatieff Team, I have been totally impressed.

I know Ignatieff is the right guy to lead the Party, but what really sealed the deal for me, is seeing the kind of people he surrounds himself with. The people are friendly, they all think for themselves, dissent IS allowed, but bottom line - they are principled people. And THAT, I am not JUST saying.

If you want to get involved, I would really encourage you to give me a shout at pedrothepolitico@gmail.com.

Thank goodness George W. Bush has a degree, because I mean, if he didn't, he could really be messings things up right now. Thank goodness he won against that John Kerry fellow, whose academic record marks-wise was significantly less impressive(seriously) while at Yale. America and the world are so much improved because of George Bush's stellar scholarship, and how he was able to translate that into intelligent, inspirational leadership. Well, at least Michael Ignatieff and Scott Brison are inspired. I hear they have a few degrees too.

I mean, working in an innovative and efficient way to feed the hungry for most of one's adult life, and then going on to become one of Canada's most successful, visionary, and admired education ministers? Just exactly who does Gerard Kennedy think he is, running in this race and all!?!?

Canada needs leaders with certificates with their names on them and stuff, and experience living in Ivory towers, not the kind of people who work tirelessly on the ground to clean up the messes that their ivory-loving colleagues' narrow thinking often creates.

I mean, who actually wants a Prime Minister who they can relate to, identify with, and follow with enough confidence that such an individual acts, and always has acted, with the interests of ordinary hard-working Canadians at heart?

Perhaps though, just perhaps, it's time we changed our thinking (and maybe even dropped the sarcasm).

Perhaps whether or not we are occupying foreign countries is just as if not more important than whether or not Gerard Kennedy writes three more term papers and three more final exams.

Perhaps whether or not we are succumbing to the end of public health care is just as if not more important than whether or not Gerard Kennedy writes three more term papers and three more final exams.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the success of over 250,000 new Canadians each year is just as if not more important than whether or not Gerard Kennedy writes three more term papers and three more final exams.

We've seen what this incredible man is capable of, and we're starting to get a great sense of where wants to see Canada headed. Perhaps, really, JUST perhaps, the promise of one of the best leaders Canada will ever have is just as if not more important than whether or not "Coco Lefoka" is supporting that individual. If I were some of these other comment-posters, I'd only be further disappointed in "Coco" if he wasn't.

Pedro - you are mistaken. You might like to think that the BC Martin crowd doesn't allow for dissent. But that's not how it's turned out in this leadership. They have all gone their separate ways, supporting all of the candidates (not many of them are with Iggy, but that's more of a statement on how Iggy refused to reach out to anyone who worked hard at the centre of things here in BC when we were gaining seats and all).

And you know what? Even though all of the BC Martinites are "divided", supporting every single candidate, they all still respect each other and spend time together.

Sounds like respectful dissent and exactly the way the Liberal Party should operate.

It's only Iggy supporters like you who are trying to sow divisive, negative feelings in the party in BC.

"America and the world are so much improved because of George Bush's stellar scholarship, and how he was able to translate that into intelligent, inspirational leadership"

Yeah, it's amazing how a guy like that can get
the lowest approval rating amongst thinking Americans.

Has the world improved simply because of George Dubya?

I doubt that. Some of his inspirational leadership has a lot to be desired.

"I mean, who actually wants a Prime Minister who they can relate to, identify with, and follow with enough confidence that such an individual acts, and always has acted, with the interests of ordinary hard-working Canadians at heart? "

Certainly those ordinary hard-working Canadians
workin towards their next political appointment within the federal Liberal Party.

"Perhaps whether or not we are occupying foreign countries"

Canadian Forces are not occupuing foriegn countries.

Maybe Gerard Kennedy and Coco were in the same fraternity? How long do you have to go to university to join a frat? Would Kennedy's half a year have cut it?

My real problem with Kennedy is that he has no clue why he's running and relies on obscure one-liners that impress people who also don't have a university education. Examples would be the 'international country' or 'enterprising culture'... what on earth is he talking about?

Further the fact that they're running around saying Kennedy can't win the next election is an odd tactic.

Pedro, Iggy, Kennedy, et. al.:

Let the past go already!

Whatever you folks think about the folks that ran the Chretien or Martin governments (whatever their age), let the freaking stuff go already!

None of you folks have the experience to win your ways out of a High School Student Council Election, for pete's sake, and all you are contributing to the debate is negative spin in support of your candidates, slamming those who had the balls to actually DO something in the last elections. Maybe you folks weren't involved because you had your heads firmly stuck in your own navels believing in your own brilliance?

It's real easy looking back and criticizing those who actually had the tough task of deciding.

If anything, you folks contributed to the party "split" over the last few years. LET IT GO FOR PETE'S SAKE!

Kennedy: Who? Whatever. (can you say "opposition for next 10 years) Style with no substance (the Liberal "Stockwell Day")
Ignatieff: Pompous, arrogant foreigner, with a Canadian Passport. (I just joined...can I run the party? I'm brilliant...really) The only ones NOT laughing are the ones with their heads firmly stuck up their rears, supporting him in hopes he's the new Trudeau (he's not).
Rae: So painfully laughable that it's the joke that keeps on delivering.

It's time to look at those who have substance...not those who the press and the Conservatives are telling you, has substance.

The above three don't.

A vote for any of them is a vote for the Conservative Majority in the next election.

All of you know it, and if you don't...you deserve the wilderness for as long as it takes for you folks to learn.

Pedro,

If you don't want to work with the Liberals who hae fought for the past decade - when you aren't the kind of Liberal I want around.

The whole point of this renewal is to bring people together, not hive them off. Your attitude shows me that you aren't ready for the kind of renewal the party really needs.

I appologize if I've been mistaken as trying to break the Party apart. In no way is that my intention.

I've joined the Party, disgruntled with LPCBC. A lot of flakes and power abuses I've seen directly, have been with some Kennedy folk and a lot of Dion's people.

Yes, I wrote that about Kennedy. I still respect the guy and yes, there are a lot of wonderful people involved with his campaign (great people, actually), but I don't want to have a leader elected where it's just going to be the same old crowd in power. Party members don't want that and neither do Canadians. That is why I just can't support him and I think that's a very legitimate reason. It's time for the Party to renew - inside out.

As a new Party member, I'm just stating my experience - all the people I've met so far with Ignatieff (especially the youth) have been really, truly, wanting to renew the Party with integrity, fairness and responsibility.

I am not an Iggy supporter; in fact, I'm not supporting anyone, but I still must agree with Pedro. However, I would support Kennedy over Dion. If the Liberals want to renew, they must change their powerbases - especially in BC. Time for change.

A good education is an asset. If you don't have that asset then experience-career has to be that much stronger. Education is one valuable criteria among several.

"If you don't want to work with the Liberals who hae fought for the past decade - when you aren't the kind of Liberal I want around."

That's kind of a silly statement to make.

Typical of the arrogance that the public knows that exists in our party. What about new members who can contribute to the growth of our party?

Some of those who had fought for the past decade weren't exactly the brightest lights in the chandelier.

Is the Liberals to become an "exclusive" party, only those who were members are benevolent supporters of the old regimes?

If this is the case, our party really has some bad problems to to fix.

This is another good reason to go with someone who is totally new and has new people running the campaign as opposed to Dion, Kennedy and Rae who seem to have attracted the same old people.

Hello McFlys!!! This is a warning. Even though we are having a healthy debate here I reluctantly agree with "Let the Past Go Already". If we continue to HATE our candidates just because they are being organized by Martinites, Chretienites, Rockheads, Turnerites or whoever then be prepared to be in opposition for the next 10 years.

Like the famous last words of Gordon Wilson, "This reminds me of the legislature and here's a classic example of why nothing ever gets done in the province of British Columbia"

I doubt anyone of your first choice candidates will win on the first ballot and by all accounts Kennedy and Ignatieff supporters are like oil and water, they just don't mix. So the most important and strategic choices may not be your first choice but your second or third. Even Martha Findlay may come up the middle for all we know.

So please be for warned.

James, you show a frightening naivete regarding Liberal politics. No campaign has more old battle axes who are responsible for the internal infighting over the past decade than Iggy. If you require a list, I would be happy to provide.

Interesting debate.

Just how much schooling does Kennedy have?

I for one have an lot of repsect for Iggy's BC team. They are good loyal Grits who love Canada and the Liberal Party. I look forward to working with them regardless of the outcome of this race.

"James, you show a frightening naivete regarding Liberal politics. No campaign has more old battle axes who are responsible for the internal infighting over the past decade than Iggy. If you require a list, I would be happy to provide."

William I find that hard to believe since most of the stalwarts such as Mark Marrissen and and a few others are not working Iggy's campaign.

If it means cleaning out the Liberal Party of the long time political hacks such as Marissen.

All they are after is their old jobs back and to retain their power base.

They've had their time in the sun. Now it's time
for others to share the beach.

Gordon Wilson, "This reminds me of the legislature and here's a classic example of why nothing ever gets done in the province of British Columbia"

"I am not an Iggy supporter; in fact, I'm not supporting anyone, but I still must agree with Pedro. However, I would support Kennedy over Dion. If the Liberals want to renew, they must change their powerbases - especially in BC. Time for change."

Isn't Kennedy being supported by all of the key people from the last regime?

Bruce Young, Raymond Chan, Jennifer Hatton, Chancal Bal were all pillars of the Martin regime. All good friends with folks like Marrisen, Cunningham, Witherly.

All good people too!

Ignatieff has Jatinder Rai and Kim Elmsy-Liek, who also have lots of friends in the Dion and Kennedy camps.

There is really no escaping the "Paul Martin crew." They are not that scary, either. Pedro and co - you should just meet some more people in the Liberal Party, and you will find that they are all fun folks.

"There is really no escaping the "Paul Martin crew." They are not that scary, either. Pedro and co - you should just meet some more people in the Liberal Party, and you will find that they are all fun folks."

When they're not planning on what jobs or political goodies they want or will go for after the leadership.

They're not there to help the Party. They're there to help themselves.

James,

You find it "hard to believe" because your knowledge of liberal party of canada ends at the Vancouver suburbs, and only goes back apparently to 2001 or thereabouts.

What about cleaning out the oldest hacks of them all like Senator David Smith or Hon. David Collinette. Both are Iggy guys to the end (come on, you should know this, it has been reported in all the papers man). Those guys were fighting divisive battles with rusty blades in the backrooms of the LPC before Mark Marissen was so much as a twinkle in his Dad's eye.

If you require a longer list of Iggy hacks, I can certainly add to this with pleasure.

Marissen is also why I never got involved. I don't think there will be many Liberals upset when Dion loses.

To all you guys who think that forgetting past atrocities overnight is going to happen, think again.

I think it is a mistake for people to be so bitter about the "Martin team" in BC. Remember folks, we actually picked up seats in the last election.

Why would we deliberately try purge people from the party, especially if the party is actually doing ok compared to the rest of the country.

I am happy with the leadership process as all the camps have a mixture of different folks (chretian and martin). Everyone should grow up a little and move on from the past.

Kennedy not having a degree, wow, that's embarassing.

I know that there are lots of smart people in the world without degrees and lots of dumb people in the world with degrees.

However, nowdays, a degree is minimum standard for most entry level jobs. There's no excuse for a would be prime minister not to have a degree.

There's no excuse for him to not to have finished. A university degree nowdays is equivalent to a highschool diploma.

Let's keep the party going!

Let's hear it for Iggy's hacks.

David McLean, chief bagman for many years -- is he with Iggy?

A great fundraiser but not exactly the stuff that idealism is made of.

"There's no excuse for him not to have finished"

Yes there is. He was working 20 plus hours a day feeding hungry, impovershed people living on the edges of the richest country in the world. It is a national disgrace that we need foodbanks in Canada but Kennedy stepped up to help those that needed a guy like him most. He basically sacrificed his own education to make sure poor people had something to eat.

These rare and admirably qualities are the sign of a true leader.

Besides, any two bit smarty pants can to run off to Harvard and kiss George Bush's butt on Iraq. Staying at home and fighting for the least among us takes real courage.

Here's a question...

If Ignatieff has built up a resevoir of funds
for his campaign, what would that be called?

An Iggy Bank?

and Tenille....

How's the Captain?

Dave,

Puhlease!!!!!!!

He can have whatever excuse he wants. The simple fact of the matter is that in today's world a university degree is a basic requirement.

If he wanted to finish his university education he could have found a way. He chose not to. And that's okay, unless you want to be the Prime Minister of Canada.

No matter what the excuse is, it is embarassing for the leader of our country to not have a proper university education.

"No matter what the excuse is, it is embarassing for the leader of our country to not have a proper university education."

True,but it was also embarassing that even with a university education a leader didn't see the big picture when it came to Adscam and basic financial management of goverment (read Human Resources).

Example: Chretien, and Martin.

Wasn't Kennedy Minister of Education in Ontario for the Liberals?

The only thing the Kennedy team is concerned with is how many mass ethnic memberships he and his team can sign in the next two weeks.

Victor, you are an ivory tower elitest and are out of touch with the average voter.

Good luck eating crow when Kennedy is PM.

I'm hardly an ivory tower elitist.

Dude, I don't have a university degree.
But I also don't want to be the Prime Minister of Canada.

I think the average Canadian voter expects their leader to have a minimum standard of education.

Dave, would you like it if your doctor was only a few credits shy of graduating? No.

Would you like the leader of this country, our representative abroad, the person making the key decisions that affect all Canadians, including marginal groups, to not even have a degree? No.