Earlier, we reported on the dust-up between Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca federal Liberal constituency association president Jason Walker's leadership hopeful Joe Volpe. But that wasn't the only brouhaha at president's council. During the meeting, Michael Ignatieff also spoke with council members. But, due to time constraints, he wasn't able to take an extra question from Gurdev Dhillon. So he invited the Burnaby-New Westminster constituency association president to speak with him outside the room, after the bear pit session. According to our operatives in the room, raised voices were heard when Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Dhillon took to the hall. At issue: in an interview with Public Eye, Mr. Dhillon explained he's concerned about new federal government safety regulations that make hard hat use mandatory for certain unionized jobs - limiting work opportunities for Sikhs wearing turbans. And he wan't to know what Mr. Ignatieff was going do about those regulations.

Asked for his impression of the exchange, Mr. Ignatieff's Western Canadian campaign manager David Hurford said "Michael did a lot of listening. Gurdev did a lot of talking - which is fine. That's what we're there to do - to listen. Michael listened to him. He gave him a response. And what I thought was a fairly sympathetic (response) in terms of his personal view - which was in-line with what Gurdev was talking about. I don't think they necessarily disagreed on the substance of the issue. But I think Michael was very cautious and said that he's just one person in the caucus. And, at the end of the day, this could be a good issue that the party could discuss."

But, in fact, Mr. Dhillon - who is backing Gerard Kennedy - says he wasn't happy with Mr. Ignatieff's commitment to simply discuss the issue in caucus. Said the president, "I was very disappointed. Because, if a leader is not going to make a decision by himself but is just going to listen to his caucus, how is he going to govern the country? I just feel he's a scholar. He's not a leader to run the country...Instead of giving an answer, he just walked away...So I hope to bring this issue up to some members of my faith and let them know that this guy wants to be the leader but he can't make decisions. He has to ask his caucus members for what he should do."

Responding to those comments, Mr. Hurford said "Gurdev's been in the party a long-time. He's a terrific guy in the sense that he's made a life-long commitment to the party. So has his family - his kids, his wife. We've got a ton of respect for Gudev. And you'll never hear us say anything bad about him." But he also added, "Gurdev had a good period of time to let Michael know his views. Michael did a lot of listening there. And I don't think that would be a fair characterization" that Mr. Ignatieff walked away from the conversation.

And what about the shouting that council members heard? Well, according to Mr. Dhillon, the ruckus was raised when former De-Elect David Emerson mover and shaker Kevin Chalmers got into the middle of the discussion. "He said, 'Why don't you let (Mr. Ignatieff) answer the question.' And I told him, 'I'm not finished. I'm trying to explain the issue.'" And besides, added Mr. Dhillon, Mr. Chalmers "is an observer. He's supposed to observe - not interfere with the presidents. And he tried to push, push, push. So I eventually told him to bugger off."