It looks to me that the Ignateef crowd wants to keep their candidate away from a venue where his shortcomings will be so apparant next to other candidates. So they shuttle him off to a different venue.

This guy Iggy continues to disrespect the liberal party with every step he makes.

I wouldnt want to debate with a bunch of clowns either.

I'm not completely sure why this is such a big deal. People should be glad they have another opportunity to engage with him. Perhaps others might be a bit worried because Mr.Ignatieff seems to always draw in a good crowd. I'm sure if the the FLC working lunch is meant to deal with a crucial matter then folks will stick around.

Come on - the Libs need a fresh face and some new ideas. He's got an amazing vision for the Party and the country. He's passionate about human rights, the environment, health care, education. What's not to like?

Jenn and Peter J, I would encourage you to meet him. I think you'd walk away thinking he was great, even if you decide not to support him.

"I'm not completely sure why this is such a big deal. People should be glad they have another opportunity to engage with him."

... exactly.

Meeting Mr. Ignatieff is not about time and place; it's about getting to know the man.

Kick the tires... and see if you want the car.

So why is Count Michael Georgievitch Ignatieff considered such a front runner for the leader of the Liberal party anyway?

I remember Sunday mornings in London reading his column and I was always left with the impression that he indentified more with being Russian and European than Canadian (and I have no problem with loose connections to nationality as generally find nationalism dangeroursly evil), but then why get involved with Canadian politcs as a retirement project?

It really surprised me that he decided to run for parliament this year and even more so that he is running for leader given the world stage he has been on and how old he is.

I can see nothing in his background that seems to indidate he has any experience in politics, any experience in leading any organization, or really any experience one would expect of someone that was leading a major political party.

I look at the resume of Martha Hall-Findlay and she seems to be much more qualified to be leader than the Count.

All I can put it down to is some desire by the chattering classes for a new philosopher king to save Canada from the sort of people that like Tim Horton's.

Bernard Schulmann

Nothing like a foreign car passing itself off as a domestic model, with a lot of fancy dials trimmed in walnut burl eh? (or should I have said "y'all"?)

"No...really...I AM the Canadian saviour! I know that because I spent the last 30 years thinking about all that isn't Canada...and I've decided that my superior intellect is the TRUE path to enlightenment...REALLY!"

Harper will have a field day if this guy wins the Liberal leadership.

Conservative poster writes about Michael Iganatieff: "Nothing like a foreign car passing itself off as a domestic model, with a lot of fancy dials trimmed in walnut burl eh? (or should I have said "y'all"?)"

Note: Mr Ignatieff Born: 12-May-1947 Birthplace: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

But, according to some conservative poster that makes him an American.

Tell me conservative poster, When he as a BBC correspondent did that make him British? When in the trenches in Serbia reporting, did that make him a European?

By the conservative posters logic, I suppose if you are using an American computer to post in the blogsphere that makes you an American.

Over to conservative-poster, who don't seem to know a Canadian when he sees one.

Liberal elitism lives on as Joe Velope, who takes contributions from children, addressed the presidents council today. Naturally most kept their mouths shut. The new guy on the block, president of esquimalt juan de fuca Jason Walker stood to ask the question 'what were you thinking' the response 'the children listened to me talk at their school they wanted to support me', walker then walked out on the council but not before Joe's henchmen made a b-line for him accusing him of knowing nothign about children. Ironically walker is a proff at uvic, his area of study, children. It was all I could do but shake my head, quietly of course.

I wonder if that other Toronto-based Liberal Leadership contender, former Human Resources and Immigration Minister Joseph Volpe, will be coming out to BC?

The fundraising gambits by his campaign are, in fact, the kind of thing one can expect to see a lot more of. NDP MP Pat Martin pointed this out when he compared the entire Liberal Party to a dog that "digs under the fence" when the rules are changed.

The Liberal Party's enormous debt, and its traditional reliance on business rather than individuals, is putting it in a deadly jam where shenanigans like those on the Volpe campaign, where 70% of what they raised came from just a couple of key families who direct one major generic drug company, is the kind of thing that will soon be popping up elsewhere, unless the other candidates are prepared to run truly shoestring campaigns.

If they had individual donors to call on, they would have done so, but those have all been alienated over the years by an antiquated approach to Liberal brokerage politics that ended up, rather like hotel lobby music, satisfying no one.

This leadership contest is one that, rather than renewing a party, is either going to fizzle out completely because no one has the cash necessary to make an impression on people, or else it's going to lurch sideways into mini-scandals like the Volpe child donor affair. And of course it could be a bit of both, some candidates who leave no trace, and others who remind people of the Sponsorship Scandal that put the Liberals into opposition in the first place.

As I said in an earlier post, without pots of cash on hand the Grits can't hire the squadrons of buxom, bouncing cheerleaders who have traditionally stimulated Liberal Leadership contests by squealing so spontaneously, "Oh, he's just sooo exciting, ... Liberals are really cool, ... Let's party Canada!"

I was at the Ignatieff rally in Victoria. There were more supporters of Dion and Kennedy there than there were Ignatieff supporters. Ignatieff came across as arrogant. The first question he got was about how much he loves the Americans and George Bush's polices.

Why is this guy running for office in Canada? With all the time he spent in Boston, couldn't he have received an American citizenship? With all of his media exposure, he could have become a Senator or something like that.

Igntatieff spent a lot of his time criticizing the Liberal Party. Not a wise move when most of the people in the crowd were people who have worked day in, day out for the Liberal Party for decades while he was sipping chardonnay with the American intellectual elite.

"Igntatieff spent a lot of his time criticizing the Liberal Party. Not a wise move when most of the people in the crowd were people who have worked day in, day out for the Liberal Party for decades while he was sipping chardonnay with the American intellectual elite"

Are these people in the crowd are those who had spent most of their time sipping beer at a Martin event put together by Mark Marissen?

Many people have worked day in and day out for the Liberal Party decades not just those who support Dion and the Liberal elite such as
Don Boudrais

Why is Dion running for the Liberal Party? He's just another toady from The Big Red Liberal Machine in Toronto.

Nothing wrong with criticising the party. There's
alot that needs to be fixed, and if there's criticism of those who come out with opinions that things need to be fixed, then then there's a real problem in our Party.

The party needs to be rebuilt and a return to the arrogance of the Martin (read Dion) crowd is not the way go.

Our party needs renewal, even if it means Dion and his campaign team is defeated.

They have had their time. Let someone else work the party for a change.

I am not Liberal elite. I am from Busboy to Cabinet.

" am not Liberal elite. I am from Busboy to Cabinet"

Who is old news so he's gone from Cabinet to busboy.

I hear that Ignatieff got into a shouting match in the hallway with Gurdev Dhillon, Kennedy supporter from Burnaby. Aparantly Dhillon felt that Iggy was defending Keith Martin's view that people should cut their hair and get rid of their turbans if they want to work in construction. Memo to Iggy: don't get into any arguments with Gurdev.

Don Boudria a member of the elite?
Nope. Started out as a busboy.

Stephane Dion a member of the "big Liberal machine in Toronto?
Nope. Talk to the Torontonians who support Iggy.

Dion supporters the "Martin crowd"??
Nope. He was dumped by Martin. Was opposed by Martin's team in Quebec.

Ignatieff's people better work harder on their spin, or work harder to know what is really going on in the Liberal Party.

And, if you are looking for "change", Ignatieff's campaign is being run by Chretien's national campaign chair (David Smith) and the son of Trudeau's national campaign chair (Ian Davey, son of Keith Davey). Not that there is anything wrong with that. Please just don't characterize it as "change".

Volpe supporters in caucus: (7 MPs) Joe Comuzzi, Sukh Dhaliwal, Massimo Pacetti, Jim Karygiannis, Wajid Khan, Yasmin Ratansi, Lui Temelkovski.

I wonder what these MP's think about Mr. Volpes actions. We already know what Karygiannis thinks. I wonder how BC's very own Sukh Dhaliwal feels.

"Dion supporters the "Martin crowd"??
Nope. He was dumped by Martin. Was opposed by Martin's team in Quebec."

Dion's BC Campaign is being run by Mark Marissen who was Chief of Staff for the Martin Government's BC Regional Office. Christy Clark and Bruce Clark are most likey Dion supporters since Bruce Clark supportered Martin. Bruce was also the bagman for the BC federal Liberals.

As for DOn Boudraia he may have started out as a busboy, but became part of the Rat Pack and then part of the Liberal elite.

But once Dion is bumped off from the leadership Don will be relegated to not much more than busboy in many Liberal's minds, and that's good.

He's had his time and it's time for new people to run the party and caucus.

"Dion's BC Campaign is being run by Mark Marissen who was Chief of Staff for the Martin Government's BC Regional Office."

Not true. Bill Cunningham is running the BC campaign, and ran the MRO. Joyce Murray, former BC Environment Minister, is Co-Chairing the BC Campaign.

Marissen is running the national campaign for Dion. He hasn't worked for the federal government since the 1997 election.

Christy Clark hasn't been involved in the federal Liberal Party since she was first elected over 10 years ago. You are right, however, that Bruce Clark supports Dion.

None of this has anything to do with Paul Martin. Paul Martin's group is divided amongst all of the leadership camps. Ask Bruce Young or James Hatton, who are working for Kennedy and Dryden.

Dion's team also has people from every former leadership camps. Almost all of Manley's national team is supporting Dion. Copps people and Chretien people are involved too.

It would be better for you, Steve, to focus on the issues and the ideas. All the old labels won't work. You can't apply them to any candidate.