Rashomon showing at the Four Seasons Hotel

Former Non-Partisan Association councillor Alan Herbert is raising questions about council candidate Ronald Leung's views concerning gay marriage, Public Eye has learned. In an interview, the openly-gay Mr. Herbert said he spoke with Mr. Leung at a reception last Wednesday for mayoral candidate Sam Sullivan. And during that reception, he says Mr. Leung told him he is opposed to gay marriage and would never attend a pride parade.

"Mr. Leung is entitled to his opinions," explained Mr. Herbert. "This is a free country. But the question is: do we want a man like that to represent us at Vancouver city council - representing a city which is pluralistic in its population and which prides itself worldwide for tolerance. And my question to the NPA is will they remove him from that slate?"

When asked about those accusations, Mr. Leung acknowledged he did speak with Herbert at the Four Seasons Hotel. But Mr. Leung says "He was quite intimidating...And then he asked me, 'You're anti-gay?' I said, 'No. What do you mean by anti-gay?'" That is how our conversation started. And every time I opened my mouth and tried to say something he cut me off. It wasn't a real conversation" - a recollection not shared by Mr. Herbert, who denies he ever intimidated Mr. Leung.

When directly asked whether he supports gay marriage, Mr. Leung responded "This question has already been settled by the federal government a few months ago. It is the law in Canada. And I follow every law of the land." But what are his personal views?

Said the former Fairchild Radio AM 1470 producer and program host "I don't know what I said during those debate programs in my radio job. I'm not working with the radio anymore. And I don't think my personal point of view on this issue has any relation to my job as a city councillor."

"I enjoy working with all people in the country. And I respect the rights of every Canadian. And I also have told many people that I don't think, as a city councillor, I will be making any decision that's detrimental to the rights of anyone - including the gay community."

And as to Mr. Herbert's claim that he wouldn't attend a pride parade? Referring to their earlier conversation, Mr. Leung said after the former councillor harangued him, Mr. Herbert asked him to attend the gay pride parade. "And I said, 'I won't go to any parade with you.'"

But Mr. Herbert remembers the conversation differently. And he says he will stand by his statements.

51 Comments

You just knew this would eventually come up...groan...yawn...

So what!? If this is such a tolerant city, why can someone who doesn't believe in gay marriage not sit as a councillor? We should be tolerant of all opinions. Leung did not come out and yell and scream epithets about gays or slam the parade. That I would not tolerate! And that kind of individual would not belong. So, he also raised some issues on his show...again, so what? Rafe Mair used to raise women's rights issues all the time. Did that make him a mysogynist? Of course not.

Ronald Leung does not believe in gay "marriage", but will perhaps walk the Pride Parade (can anyone say what they will be doing tomorrow, with certainty, much less almost a year from now!) but won't walk the parade with Alan Herbert (can't blame him for that!) and recognizes the law(s) of the land.

Where's the problem? Sounds balanced and principled.

You know what's happening in this City? The pan-Liberalism big L with emphasis) is ruining it for everybody. Ronald Leung is hardly intolerant for espousing what one could readily argue is the majority opinion in this country IF THE FEDS HAD THE GUTS TO CALL A REFERENDUM, but that's over now.

Having a philosophical position which differs from one part of the gay community, makes you neither intolerant or hateful in any way. I, too, do not believe in gay marriage, but rather in civil unions for same sex couples, with FULL rights as if they were married. I just don't like the word "marriage" being hijacked to accomodate the political correctness griping us.
If being gay, lesbian or transgendered is different and unique and distinct and not simply a lifestyle, then choose your own unique way to get hitched! They should have let the houses of faith decided this. Not the Government imposing themselves. People don't like it when Conservatives talk about the death penalty or partial birth abortion etc. but when the federal Sliperals made a value judgement and
foisted it on all of us, the media loved it and no one seemed to care.

Pathetic.

Ronald Leung should be lauded for his balanced approach to respecting the gay community and not compromising his own values or beliefs. The political arena needs more like him.

I totally agree with Mr. Leung and once again above. There is no problem. it's not like the guy was calling everybodya fag or anything cause that would be really bad but he did not do this so there is no problem. From the way Sean describes it, it sure sounds like Alan Herbert. Mr. know it all, he always cuts everybody off, he's ajoke and a half for always trying to make a mountain out of a tiny mole hill. Same way he was on council.

Too bad the NPA didn't remove him from their slate then.

Gordon Price was always the best gay rep this country ever had. Herbert always had some "envy".

Good for Herbert. Anti-gay attitudes should not be allowed on any slate that I would vote for.

But, what about the fact that it was Leung's votes who brought Sam Sullivan over the top at the mayor's nomination? Not only were the anti-Gay Leung's votes who helped elect Sam Sullivan, it was also guys like John Hof, the leader of the anti-woman, anti-gay BC Family Coalition (or whatever it's called). They were out in full force from Langley helping to stop Christy Clark and her liberal attitudes. (which are much more in keeping with the vast majority of Vancouverites).

Did Sam Sullivan do a deal with the devil to stop Christy Clark?

once again...there's that old chestnut about the liberal media myth.
Since David Asper got his mits on Hollinger's old properties, this town has been awash in CPC/neocon ink.
If Martin hadn't cosied up to the BC Liberal machine there would be zero love for the Fedlibs in Pacific Pressland.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Let's see if I've got this right...you've got an ex-NPA councilor having a dispute with a wannbe NPA councilor and the ex-councilor wants the candidate pulled from the slate.

Wow...another tough break. Is Prozac soluable in alcohol?

No Sleeps, Prozac apparently is not the way to go...I just asked...:-)

You've got it backwards, when Hollinger was press lord then you had neo-Con ink. Asper is decidedly against picking sides. Even the Post has gotten soft.

Herbert should not even qualify as an unqualified opinion maker...he has to think first. He's making a mockery of himself, if he thinks this will fly.

As for Good For Herbert, I can only say what I know: get off the crack pipe! It is impossible to know whose block of votes catapulted Sam into the leader's chair. I was there an what I saw was, conversely, that Christy just didn't get her vote out.

Nice effort to spin Sam and Leung as intolerant and deal makers with Satan etc., bullshit, psychobabble.

Leung's position is simple: he respects the gay community but does not agree with gay marriage. That's a very acceptable position to take. He supports the Pride Parade, but may not attend depending on commitments (it is afterall in the middle of summer), but he certainly won't attend with Herbert--another smart move.

There is no problem here, also, Sleeps, since Herbert really belongs in COPE, so his opinions do not wash with the NPA rank and file. They never really did. Trust me.

Still no issue, good effort boys and girls.

"If being gay, lesbian or transgendered is different and unique and distinct and not simply a lifestyle, then choose your own unique way to get hitched! They should have let the houses of faith decided this. Not the Government imposing themselves. People don't like it when Conservatives talk about the death penalty or partial birth abortion etc. but when the federal Sliperals made a value judgement and
foisted it on all of us, the media loved it and no one seemed to care.

Pathetic"

So says Once Again. I wonder, is there any way this quotation can be set aside for next year's federal election and used to help discredit whomever the Conservatives nominate in Vancouver Centre to run against Svend Robinson.


Hhmmm... you've got to question the intelligence of someone seeking elected public office who makes it clear that he despises a chunk of the population whom he is asking to elect him and who he hopes to represent?

Of course everyone has the right to be intolerant, Once Again. Just stay in your cave, keep it to yourself and don't expect that we'll be stupid enough to elect you to represent us if you're a proud bigot.

OA
David Asper's personal crowning glory would be to install Harper at 24 Sussex. Every chance he gets he praises US hegemony and George Bush and his bastard love child Harper. If the Post is getting soft it's because he can't stand losing money endlessly. Sure Conrad was a flaming neocon but when he owned the papers, Chretien would have little to do with Campbell's neocons..now it's one big (not always happy) group hump.
Most can be forgiven for not seeing past the pandering that Pacific Press does to appease the left of center voters in Vancouver...they are masters at the art of manipulation.

As for Ronald Leung, your rhetorical question about tolerance to his POV doesn't fly. Sure he's entitled to run..but will his narrow viewpoint attract voters...maybe in Langley.

sleeps is right.

What is Leung doing on the ticket?

Leung was there to get enough instant Chinese members to stop Christy. Sam paid for the memberships, and made the deal with the anti-gay activist. A deal with the devil in order to win.

The same way he made the deal with anti-gay John Hof to act as chief scrutineer.

The same deal that saw a young, Langley-ish Hof supporter stealing all of Christy Clark's lists so that they could try and call Christy Clark's supporters to tell them that the vote went well past 2 pm.

I know how the West End is going to vote in this election.

It ain't for Sam Sullivan.

You clowns crooning from the left really make me laugh. Other than sleeps, I have no time for any of the rest of you mental midgets, bur here goes just the same...

Leung does not have a narrow view. He respects the gay community, but does not believe in gay marriage. That's not narrow at all. It's is in line with a majority of Canadians.

Leung feels that he does not want to attend the parade with Alan Herbert. No qualms there. Who would? You'd never get a word in!

Leung feels that he may attend the parade if he is not away with his family, like the majority of Vancouverites, in the middle of summer. How is that intolerant?

This whackjob Good for Herbert even outdoes Budd! Incredible. The infomration offered about Sam's alleged deals is utterly contemptible drivel. Not one shred of truth to it at all.

Know what's happening to the gay "movement", girls? It 's going the way of the woman's rights movement of the seventies and eighties. It's no longer about equal rights or rights at all, it's about the gay mafia, it's about me first, it's about in your face, unecessary pandering at every corner to try and make up the idiocies of the past, and principled reasonable guys like Leung get caught in the crossfire. People who can't handle another's sexuality should not be scorned, they shoudl be pitied.

Well within ten years, probably less, the gay movement will fall on it's ass (pun intended) because of the Queer Nation tactics of the radical and rabid in that community, whgo have left no room for the majority of the gay community who a re reasonable guys (and gals) who are largely indifferent about Queerdom and just want to live there lives like everybody else. Who cares whom you want to sleep with? But with the radical left wing, it's always about monikers and titles and bullshit psychobabble and over processing (And obsessing!) Get over it!

I have a number of gay freinds who find the parade, for example, a spectacle not worth seeing for many of it's inherent hypocrisies, which to gay community, if it had any courage, would address. Whining about the AIDS rate on the one hand while on the other encouraging the public siumulation of promiscous group sex, smacks of the very worst of contradictions. It disrespects freinds of mine who died, having committed themselves to the same reckless activity.

Leung is NOT anti-gay. The posters in this thread, save and except for Sleeps, are all radicals, who found an opportunity to take a kick at an otherwise decent guy, who's a great candidate, just based on the propogation of rumour and heresay.

What a joke. Sorry if it's too loud, must be the echo in this cave since I built the indoor pool....

Anybody other than me getting tired of the Once Again/Sleeps mutual masterbation society going on here?

Newsflash: neither of you is the second coming of Voltaire. Yet neither of you seems to be able to make a point without denigrating the intelligence of everyone else on these boards.

If you truly are "high powered" civic election organizers - a bit of an oxymoron don't you think? - for the NPA and COPE, don't you think the laughable record of both civis parties over the last few years robs you of any right to be arrogant?

You're both obviously intelligent folks, just not nearly as smart or witty as you think. My humble advice is to try and state your ideas without such a large dose of visiousness and maybe you won't get so much back.

On a different note, Once Again, just why was John Hof scrutineering for the Sullivan campaign at the nomination meeting?

That's not a "drivel", that's a fact. Seems a little weird for a Langley resident with no discernable ties to Vancouver or to Sam to be there.

Or does he have ties to Sam? Or to some of Sam's supporters? I ask the question out of genuine curiousity.

Well said..once again..Leung's probably a very decent guy, he just doesn't believe in equal rights for gays and he's entitled to his POV.
As for the shenanigans at the NPA mayor's nomination..no problem..I'm sure everyone got too drunk after to remember any details.

As for the acoustical reverb your're getting in the pool room..try papering the ceiling with the membership forms from all Christy's signups..you won't be needing them anymore.

...oooooh! Surprized you'd even venture out of your cave at all, far less "Once Again", what with all the mental midgets, gay mafia, "girls" (I take it that's intended as an insult too), leftist clowns & rabid radicals you have to put up with out here.

Jerry old boy,

Fair ball. I have learned to like Sleeps an awful lot. I guess if you go at someone hard enough long enough, the misery dies and in it's place...mutual admiration and understanding. IS it that obvious? I guess it was the Sheila thread. Oh well.

To the point: you question is excellent. Hof is a friend of a friend of Sam's. Both of those friends are on the periphery and Hof was excluded from anything else. Listen, in that kind of fight, you'll take a warm body from almost anywhere. I don't agree with Hof on pretty much anything except partial birth abortion. He is indeed many of the things described above, but to suggest that some sort of deal was cut is well beyond the limits of ridiculous cause there was no such thing. The drivel I referred to was the broad sweeping accusation that several deals had been cut with Bible thumping extremists and that simply is a bold faced lie. Actually, truth be told, there were some pretty out there Reform types in Christy's campa as well, never mind the bullshit you here. And, frankly, all the scrutineers git along famously with little trashtalking, if at all. They traded political jokes most of the time. Okay, may be the odd dirt one here and there, too! :-)

Would I preferred the the Bible belt boys be gone, sure, but I don't have to. TWO(!) only showed up at the nomination and haven't been heard from since. There were also rabid federal Libs who supported Sam and everybody worked together very well.

Sam really doesn't know the guy at all.

Anyway, on the issues related to Leung I stand firm on what I said--non issue.

Take good care.

Hi Jerry
How did your remedial course in Nuclear Physics go? Have you located Canada's weapons grade plutonium enricher yet?

I don't think you've got the protons to qualify as a purveyor of viscious rejoinders yet...but with a little practice who knows? Maybe you could take on 'no angel'...she's hot for a bit of crumpet like you.

Know what?

I reread some of my vitriol of today, and, try not to go into shock...I'm sorry.

Unkindness just spews from my veins as a natural deterrent against having to watch a guy like Leung get trashed for no reason at all.

We buried many gay friends in the last several years and I guess I am just really uber sensitive about listening to the hypocrisy train or what I read. I miss them, that's for sure. They hardly ever talked about it anymore than I would have talked about my wife (then girlfriend). The gay community has much to answer for. You cannot tell my the group rub part of the parade has any place anywhere, anymore. Too many really terrific guys have died thinking it was okay. Iime for a reality check. Hopefully, we all evolve into better people, over time. And so it must be for the parade. Herbert is a hypocrite. Clean up your own backtard before you go pull weeds out of Leung's.

The guy's not intolerant if he doesn't agree with gay marriage. It's just his opinion. Now if he were anti-gay, that's obscenely ridiculous and unacceptable--but again, that's not what he is.

So Jerry and Name, I'm sorry and will try and tone it down, bit this particular topic has some personal significance.

Once Again
In the best interests of lubeless mutual self gratification it is my duty to tell you I don't think 'Good for Herbert' is from the Left. I think it's someone in the NPA that you know quite well. If you reread his post you should come to the same conclusion...he must have been there.

Sleeps,

Yeah, I thought about it. Sounds Greg Wilsonish (in which case it's not from the left, but the loonie left...)

Couldn't be though, unless he's mischief making (oh my God no, not Greggy, perish the thought!)

Whoever it is is all wet. None of the claimed deal making happen. Fact: anyone who described Hof as "Chief scrutineer" has been stealing your Temple balls amigo.

And his assesment of what way the West End will vote is also a joke. Of course they won't come out on masse for the NPA. After trying to stomach the unstomachable Meinkampf (Budd and I are in TOTAL agreement there!) and with May-in-court's antics with his heat in support of Christy, jeez, can't imagine why will only take a couple of those polls.

IF it is an NPAer sleeps, the guy was NOT at the same meeting and is just making it up. I think you know me well enough by now, if it were true I would agree and condemn that kind of thing, but it wasn't.

Later.....

Everyone knew Ronald was a conservative. How is this news?

"Know what's happening to the gay "movement", girls? It 's going the way of the woman's rights movement of the seventies and eighties. It's no longer about equal rights or rights at all, it's about the gay mafia, it's about me first, it's about in your face, unecessary pandering at every corner to try and make up the idiocies of the past, and principled reasonable guys like Leung get caught in the crossfire. People who can't handle another's sexuality should not be scorned, they shoudl be pitied.

Well within ten years, probably less, the gay movement will fall on it's ass (pun intended) because of the Queer Nation tactics of the radical and rabid in that community, whgo have left no room for the majority of the gay community who a re reasonable guys (and gals) who are largely indifferent about Queerdom and just want to live there lives like everybody else. Who cares whom you want to sleep with? But with the radical left wing, it's always about monikers and titles and bullshit psychobabble and over processing (And obsessing!) Get over it!"

Thanks again, Once Again, for two more 24K keepers for the next federal election. I hope the staff on the Svend Robinson campaign are monitoring this site closely, and that your real identity will soon be known! Between you and Steve Hopkins, this site has become a veritable gusher of fresh fuel for the NDP.

Oh Budd, you senile ignoramus...

When will you get booted from this site or any of the others you infect?

What?! Can't get back onto rabble? You are such an ass. What's wrong with what I wrote?
Can't handle the truth.

You and all the thief loving Svend supporyers just kill me--from all the laughter!

Let's see if I 've got this: the first MP to come out and witness an assisted suicide, the first MP to heckle a sitting US President, the first MP to steal a 50K ring and claim it was an oversight, and the first former MP claim that his bipolar disorder will make him an excellent MP because the heavy medication isn't so heavy?

Budd, only in the Nutter/Dingbat Party could one locate the likes of Svender Bender and you, you ill informed stale cracker.

Are you further suggesting that the NDP and or Sliperals will need help that riding? you're a bigger moron than I thought. The Tories won't break 20% in that riding...kinda like the federal NDP nationally under Jack Latent.....

Totally dry of ideas, lost in mixed cyberspace, our only hope for you Buddly is that the nurses loosen the waistband on your Depends...the diaper is apparently squeezing off any brian cells left in your ass.

Ta ta for know, dear heart.

Can someone really explain what the news story is here?

So Mr. Leung opposing gay marriage and choosing not to attend a gay pride parade makes him a bigot?

Let's turn that logic completely on its head. It's the equivilant of saying that someone is an anti-Christian bigot by choosing not to go to church.

You so-called "liberal" people need to realize that tolerance and freedom is a two-way street. If you don't want people of faith ramming their beliefs down your throat, try not to ram yours down theirs.

If Mr. Herbert is looking for intolerance, he should take a good long look in the mirror.

Being against gay marriage does not make someone a bigot.

Being an ACTIVIST against gay marriage makes you a jerk.

Being a leading activist against gay marriage probably makes you enough of a jerk to be a bigot.

To "the real truth":

I don't understand. If having a certain point of view doesnt make you a bigot, how can advocating that same point of view make you one?

Reasonable people can disagree on issues without having to resort to calling each other bigots or what have you.

But of course, someone who can't accept another person expressing and advocating their own beliefs has no legitimate claim to being tolerant, let alone have any credibility in calling someone else intolerant.

The liberal-left need to get it through their heads that genuine tolerance is reciprocal.


jerrys right you are both fags,,
personallly i can not grab the concept of being gay,,,
rosa parks left us today,i understand that,,,

nic

When informed that an overweight, middle-class union president from Canada who makes $100K/yr was comparing herself to the heroine of the American civil-rights movement (who was a bed-sheet seamstress doing piece-work), Ms. Parks died laughing. Parks' niece Rhea McCauley told Associated Press " As a family, our fear is that during her last days Auntie Rosa will be surrounded by strangers trying to make money off of her name." (Source : Wikipedia entry on Rosa Parks).

"Oh Budd, you senile ignoramus...
...
Totally dry of ideas, lost in mixed cyberspace, our only hope for you Buddly is that the nurses loosen the waistband on your Depends...the diaper is apparently squeezing off any brian cells left in your ass.

Ta ta for know, dear heart."

Posted by Once Again at October 24, 2005 09:10 PM

ROTFLMAO!!!

Once again, Once again, you have made it worth the time to visit this pleasant site. Actually, I am only in my mid-50s so the Depends Days are still a long way off. But Tories like yourself will be pleased to hear an anecdote that came my way. A relative who is a long term care aid up North stopped working in one of the local private care homes, owned by some wealthy doctors in Vancouver, when the management decided to ration the number of diapers each octogenarian could have each day. Now there's ironclad cost containment for you, ... the greatest little invention since portion control.

By the way, Once Again, at your place, do you "rethermalize" your leftovers, or do you just heat them up like regular folks?

In any case, I digress. You are right in suggesting that Svend Robinson does have a few little spots in his political resume that could do with some, er, reinforcements. However, like most people, he has had successes as well as failures.

As for you Tories, well, all I can say is that if you keep posting Robert Novak style rants about the "homosexual agenda" please don't be crying foul if these utterances are used against you in a general election. You know, I really think you're making a huge error here. With Svend challenging Hedy (or is it actually going to be Christy?), this would be a good time for a Jim Prentice type, a business/professional sort with sound liberal credentials on social issues to make a big play for the Conservatives in Vancouver Centre and, if they're lucky, take the riding back to the days of Pat Carney.

"When informed that an overweight, middle-class union president from Canada who makes $100K/yr was comparing herself to the heroine of the American civil-rights movement (who was a bed-sheet seamstress doing piece-work), Ms. Parks died laughing."

Posted by Steve Hopkins at October 25, 2005 07:50 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, Steve, but didn't your wife in her Federal Campaign last year make some unctuous comparisons between her own career and that of various people who have struggled to improve human rights? I don't recall her actually naming Rosa Parks, but she basically tried to position herself in that tradition, did she not?

Budd, you're usually wrong. But if you're really interested, head on down to the Vancouver Museum and check out their display on the role that Shirley and her mother played in organizing the residents of Strathcona to save that neighbourhood and Vancouver from "urban renewal" and freeways. For some reason there's no display on your contributions to the community, but maybe someday there will be. Or you might want to watch the episode "Mary Chan : Fighting City Hall" from Susan Poizner's series Mother Tongue (www.mothertongue.ca) on Canadian Learning Television.

Budd,

It'll be difficult to use Once Again's quote to "discredit whomever the Conservatives nominate in Vancouver Centre to run against Svend Robinson." The candidate has already been nominated, his name is Tony Fogarassy, and he's quite open about the fact that he'd vote in favour of SSM if the opportunity presents itself.

"...if you're really interested, head on down to the Vancouver Museum and check out their display on the role that Shirley and her mother played in organizing the residents of Strathcona to save that neighbourhood and Vancouver from "urban renewal" and freeways."

Posted by Steve Hopkins on October 25, 2005 08:51 AM

How is it that so many political personalities in Vancouver all lay claim to the same event, stopping the Chinatown Freeway? Mike Harcourt, Darlene Marzarri, Walter Hardwick, Art Phillips, to name just a few. Could it have been a yuppie bandwagon large enough for many to ride? I am always a bit mystified by the claim that the proposed freeway was going to go through the heart of Chinatown and Strathcona, since a Georgia Viaduct alignment would have been on the south end of these precincts, not through the middle of them.

In any case, Steve, let me know when the museum opens up the Steve Hopkins exhibit. Will the photographs illustrate your hatred of teachers?

"The candidate has already been nominated, his name is Tony Fogarassy, and he's quite open about the fact that he'd vote in favour of SSM if the opportunity presents itself."

Posted by Raging Tory on October 25, 2005 08:54 AM

Sorry, I must have missed that item. Fogarassy may have the appropriate social issues positioning, but does he have the business/professional status of a Pat Carner or Jim Prentice type? Does he have some economic credibility that will help him win the ridings apartment dwellers who are social liberals but, for the most part, economic conservatives?

Raging Tory,

Tony will be a very poor candidate, as he'll pick up all the cling on progressives, but none of the traditional Tories will touch him. He actually would be better suited in the Liberal camp. I have no probelm with him voting for SSM, but on other policies he is ill equipped for public office.

Buddster, God bless him (he's actually growing on me) is dreaming in technicolour if he thinks that some anonymous quote in a blog is going to be the byline for a particular candidate in a particular riding. Hilarious really.

To the issue at hand. Herbert apparently has contacted several media sources and is trying desperately to have anyone listen to his blather about what he alleges Leung is supposed to have said. Interesting foornote: while I am dialled into a good number of the wannabe hip literati, not one of them or the static beaters want anything to do with using Herbert as a credible source. Interesting--NOT! Read between the lines Alan baby, you're all washed up politcally.

I am agreed with Total Agreement above, Gordon Price casts a very long shadow over Svender Bender and Herbert and any other openly gay politician. Price was a class act, so what if he was over the top with his bike initiatives etc. And he certainly knew how to put Witchy Poo Kennedy in her place.

I wonder how that broomstick polishing is going for her? Hmmmm.....

If you ask the average Vancouverite who Alan Herbert or Gordon Price is, probably only 20 per cent at best would have any idea. Ask them who Svend Robinson is, and 90 per cent will know who he is.

So let's not get on some kind of weird debate about who is more credible between Herbert and Price (I do notice, however, that Herbert is credible enough to have his story published in the Vancouver Sun today).

The real story here is that anti-gay attitudes are now totally unacceptable in Canada. Yes, there is a large contingent of Canadians who are against gay marriage, but they do not constitute the majority of urban voters. Especially in Vancouver. I would hazard a guess that Mr. Leung's views are shared by no more than 25% of Vancouver residents.

The percentage willing to vote FOR someone against gay marriage, and make that their determinant vote is actually quite low. I would imagine the percentage of people who would vote AGAINST someone because of their stand on gay marriage would actually be quite high.

It is strange that the NPA would recruit someone like Leung. But I buy the explanation that they needed his recruits to beat Christy Clark and the federal Liberal machine who brought you gay marriage in the first place.

Apology accepted with much respect, Once Again, you don't see those often around here. And you're right -- we're all prone to knee-jerk reactions & overs-simplifying issues that aren't black & white.

I was there in the voting room.

"Friend of a friend" John Hof was there too.

I want to get something straight: According to the story line, Sam Sullivan was NOT a "machine candidate". The only people who were supporting him were "local friends and supporters" who admired his work on city council and intimately aware of the issues facing Vancouver. There was NO party politics involved in Sam's campaign. NO, NO, NO. There just couldn't be a campaign run as a machine because it was run from a doughnut shop, or whatever.

So what policy or program did Sam Sullivan champion at City Hall that got Langleyite John Hof to like him so much? What made him take that Saturday off to go across the Port Mann bridge to help Sam in his time of need?

As far as I can tell, the reasons can only be one of the following:

1. Hof and Sullivan share the same views on moral questions.

2. Hof is a right-wing political hack who just loves to go out and scrutineer for strangers, or "friends of friends" anywhere in the Lower Mainland.

3. Hof is so concerned about a liberal pro-choice woman becoming Mayor that he had to do anything he could to stop her -- even though these issues are federal, not municipal

4. Hof is close buddies with Colin Metcalfe, Sam's campaign manager.

5. Hof doesn't like Indo-Canadians because they did in his friend Mary Polak in the Surrey-Panorama Ridge byelection and it was payback time.

Once again - please let me know which of these reasons is correct.

My other question is, how can Sam Sullivan describe the Christy Clark campaign as some kind of "right wing" entity when all of the loony right was on Sam's side?

Well Christy Clark Scrutineer, is Christy Clark going to be the Federal Liberal candidate in Vancouver Centre against Svend Robinson, or not?

Name! Once A! "Apology accepted with much respect"? "...you're right..."?? "...issues that aren't black & white."????? Ick. Get a room.

being a chinese and a lesbian, i have always been saddened by listening to leung's radio program. his call in program in the afternoon was always filled with anti-gay sentiments from callers

Polly

I don't understand how that could be true. If word of that leaked out to the huge and politically aware gay community in Vancouver then the NPA's goose would be cooked just in time for the American Thanksgiving. It can't be true because that would be just too ironic.

Polly

I just don't see how someone like that could wind up as an NPA candidate unless Sam was so desperate to beat Cristy Clark that he made deals with extreme right wing bigoted power players who could deliver him some votes. If this is true it could explain why Sam himself was such a non entity for so many years as a councilor.

Once Again,

Progressives are traditional Tories. I suspect, though, that by "traditional Tories" you mean social conservatives and, to that extent, I agree that many of those people might have to hold their noses to vote for a progressive Conservative (yes, it is still an oxymoron but I'm sure you catch my drift). Do recall that the last two Conservative MPs in Van Centre were Kim Campbell and Pat Carney. How, pray tell, is Tony "ill equipped for public office" on other policies?

To answer Budd's question, by profession, he's a natural resources lawyer at one of Vancouver's upper-mid sized firms. I'd hazard he's of the "don't waste my tax money" crowd.

"To answer Budd's question, by profession, he's a natural resources lawyer at one of Vancouver's upper-mid sized firms. I'd hazard he's of the "don't waste my tax money" crowd."

Thanks, Raging Tory. Hmmm. What kind of natural resources lawyer? There could be some risks here vis a vis environmental and aboriginal issues. How old is Tony, and how much money has he made? Does he live in the riding?


It's about time we got us some real politicians..not them red, pinko tories thet wear skirts and pretend they is wimins.
Things ain't gonna be right around hear till them un natural types..you know what I mean boy..ain't stinkin up our public offices with they perfumed underwear.
In fact..we won't be happy till all public institutions are private and in the hands of good Christian God fearin folk. The only people who should pay taxes are poor people and gay folk until they ain't round no more..you know what I mean..don't you boy.
Yup..thets right..we got the camps all built and they as dry as a heap of bark and pine needles settin in the hot sun...wooooeee...y'all got purty lips boy...ever squealed like a pig?

Budd - does Svend live in the riding? A happily married gay couple i know would vote for Hedy over Svend any time.

Vat's all this furor about the, ahem Sam? Ve haff been vatching Sam for many years and ve sink he hass vot it takes to crush the resistance to hiss solutions for some of your citizens.

He hass gut people arrround him. HE VILL CRRRUSH HISS ENEMIES!!!!

YOU VILL CEASE YOUR SHHHHMARTY PANTS COMMENTS ABOUT SAM REICH NOW!!!!!

Yikes!! This board is really losing credibility and FAST!! Why even bother posting when you've got to contend with "FriendsofConservatives", "SS Fan Club" and alike?

Relax Yikes...vat are you afraid of? Do you haff a compulsion to shtare at tings that bother you? Do the aims of the True Chosen Party make you so uncomfortable und vy vould dat be?
Does za truth hurt?

Budd Campbell,

Shirley Chan and her mother helped lead the fight agains a freeway cutting through one of the oldest neighborhoods in the city. Preserving a neighborhood is a major achievment. Budd you need a history lesson. That was a major battle and your dismissiveness of that battle does not go down well with us lifers of the Strathcona/Downtown Eastside. Shirley was also involved with SPOTA and they produced the Mirror, a Strathcona newspaper. And the Militant mothers also had a huge impact on positive outcomes for the children of Raymur and Strathcona. Shirley worked alongside many of the Mothers, mine included. Yes Mike Harcourt had a storefront in Strathcona and was involved in the freeway battle too.

Budd why not stop being a know-it-all and tell us what your accomplishments have been for Vancouver. I would love to know what exactly you have contributed? Any chance of providing us with this information?

Budd,

I don't think it really matters "what kind" of natural resources lawyer Tony is. Anyone practicing in that area will have contact with environmentalists, aboriginals, governments and companies. Check out his law firm bio at www.cwilson.com. It appears he has also been counsel at UBC and Tech U (merged with SFU). I understand that both he and Hedy Fry live in the riding. I fail to see why it matters how much money he has made.

On your questioning of how it is that so many political personalities in Vancouver all lay claim to the same event, stopping the Chinatown Freeway, I think the answer might be that it was a time of great political activisim, when many of the political leaders of the 80's and 90's came of age. Vancouver was a comparatively small city back then.

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