this is kind of shocking.

Some of those rabid Tories would do anything to slow Christy Clark down. Look how rabid and insulting they have been here on this site.

The rabid Tories - such as myself - were too busy standing and starving on our feet for five freakin' hours to be running off with scrutineer forms. That, and bantering amicably with Ms. Clark's gracious volunteers.

There was a lot of Liberal involvement in the Christy Clark campaign, ... some wanting her to actually win, some wanting her and Marrissen to be defeated. It was kind of like watching one of those 1970s Clint Eastwood "spagetti westerns" where there is so much gunfire going on that it's impossible to tell who's shooting at who.

My guess is that the man leaving the Marriott was a Liberal operative working to bring down the House of Clark-Marrissen.

Budd:

Could you please spare us with your very nasty low level counciousness comments.

boringly stupid

How do you feel about your parents giving you that name..are you resentful?

Do the kids call you bs or bullshit just to be cruel and how does that make you feel?

The site has degenerated into pettiness and spiteful name calling. No problem with putting forward one's beliefs, thoughts or even crackpot ideas, but the content has gone subterranean.

Let's grow up. Politics, even BC politics, should be a bit more respectful than this.

It's a shame that interested political folks of different stripes can't have a (reasonably) thoughtful discourse without innuendo, name calling and childish posts.

Aw, don't be so hard on Budd! Reading his over-the-top conspiracy theories is fun in a cheesy kinda way. Like reading a bad Robert Ludlum novel. One that is bad. That is, worse than Robert Ludlum's other novels. But still, a Robert Ludlum novel... about local politics or internet message boards. "The Marissen Weekend", or "Six Days of the Liberal-CBC-Mafia Rabble", or something like that.

agree

What planet are you from?

"Let's grow up. Politics, even BC politics, should be a bit more respectful than this.
It's a shame that interested political folks of different stripes can't have a (reasonably) thoughtful discourse without innuendo, name calling and childish posts."

I admire your idealism but I hate to break this to you...politics is not for "ladies and gentlemen". Sure..on the surface the MLA'a, MP's and their assorted managers and advisors seem to be a polite civilized lot but behind closed doors they would make Caligula blush.
Politics = hardball...nasty stuff.
Holding out for civility on an online forum dedicated to politics is pure fantasy..not gonna happen.

It would be a total bore as well.

What's more boring, hiding behind a handle lifted from a Neil "Can-Con" Young song or flaming everyone in sight? That being said, Sleep's last post was refreshingly free of the usual infantile name-calling. Too good to last, I'm guessing. Most people recognize that aggression stems from insecurity. Google "ego-defence mechanisms" or "neurosis".

Steve

I see your're still desperately trying to get noticed. I expect you'll be posting your phone number and address next but that won't work either..you see, Steve, people aren't attracted to ill conceived opinions.
My observations may not be to everyones taste but they sure aren't boring and obviously you don't have sufficient gray matter to understand that.

I rest my case.

That's a good idea Steve...your 'case' is so weak it couldn't pull a sick ***** off a toilet.

Hey sleeps, do you think, just for one tiny minute, that all the childishness and "nasty stuff" could possibly be turning people off politics?

Could be. Could be that all this crap is getting in the way of decent folks getting interested and involved.

Which is quite possibly one reason that we are terribly close to the US in terms of voter participation.

Who really wants one of their kids going to politics these days with this stuff going on.

Am I an idealist, no. I have been around politics for a long time. I just think it's time to stop giving politics and politicians a bad name through all this stuff.

agree

you said
"I just think it's time to stop giving politics and politicians a bad name through all this stuff."

I don't suppose that politicians themselves could have anything to do with their individual reputations...no..that's too much of a stretch.
OK...I'll be nice.

NOT

I heard that on Saturday and thought it was incredibly bizarre and much more typical of third-world "tactics" than anything we'd come to expect in a western democracy. I sincerely hope that had nothing to do with Mr. Sullivan's campaign, but I don't really doubt it, given the interest they had in those lists being taken. Kudos to Ms. Haakstad for giving chase. I hope she got a good visual!

Being accused of conspiracy theories by a poster named "obscurantist" is one of the tamer pleasures of BC politics.

I don't know how it's conspiratorial of me to suggest that some Liberals wanted Christy to fail. She was disloyal to Campbell, and there are worries about the baggage that Marrissen brought into the party in terms of Basi and Virk.

What's more, why doesn't obscurantist simply review the various messages on this and other chat boards coming from people both happy and furious that Christy lost, or was in the race to begin with. Many of them are avowed Liberals. So the notion that Liberals were both pro and anti Christy is hardly a matter of conspiratorial conjecture, it's clear just from reviewing the many comments here on PublicEyeOnline.

"Disloyal to Campbell"? Well, what can you say except "Hey Freddie! Howza bouta 'nother Mai Tai for the road?"

Doubtless conspiracies do exist sometimes in politics, but as a general rule, it makes sense not to assume a conspiracy where simple ineptitude is an adequate explanation. Budd, you're not just saying Clark's candidacy was supported and opposed by various people within the federal Liberals (a somewhat general statement), you're also said that she was set up for a fall by people within the Liberals who encouraged her to run.

The way I see it, the people who backed Clark's campaign (including federal Liberals) thought that Clark could sign up enough members and had enough natural charisma and obvious brilliance to win the NPA nomination, and they were wrong on all counts. If they hadn't wanted her to win, they wouldn't have backed her.

Of course, maybe I'm just saying that to lull people into a sense of complacency, but then if I was really trying to be obscurantist, would I draw attention to myself by calling myself that?

The rumour today in NPA circles is that a number of Clark supporters were phoned and told that the voted at 3pm, not 2pm. I guess that is what Sam's guys did with the list.

Would Metcalfe say that they were more worried about their own organization than Christy's if this is true? It is really sad when you have to cheat to win and it appears that is what Metcalfe did.

To "it gets better" and the other CC fanclub spinners,

It's funny the level of defamation that goes on with some posters here.

The idea that Colin and Sam's forces had this covert operation against the CC's nom-day lists is silly.

On what basis can you say Colin and Sam set in motion this covert op? Or even if it was part of their team plan? Or even if this thing ever happened?

Or is this one of the many delusions of the CC fan club, just like they are saying CC set this campaign up in 10 days or 3 weeks or whatever ridiculously short period of time. So that they feel less bad losing to Sam's campaign.

Signing up 2000 new members to Sam's 1000 (with 2000 original members) and still losing by 60 votes shows the weakness of CC's campaign. Given about 2100 total votes were cast. This means that CC got well less than 50% of their new sign ups to vote and perhaps only as few as 25%.

CC and MM were simply out performed by Sam.

Some of you over the top venomous anti-Metcalfe creatures need to get off the crack pipe.

Here is your reality check:

1)No one connected ot the Sullivan campaign fled with lists of Clark's. And if so, so what? at the itme that happened it would have made no substantive difference as Clarkers were counting with "guns" (clickers) and Sullivanites were armed with hotlists of pocket supporters (low lying fruit). they didn;t even go after the outside, far away Marpole or out as far as Strathcona crowd. Good group form Cedar Cottage though.

2) Clark's campaign was riddled with dirty tricks a la Martinite style from the beginning. There were dozens of Indo Canadians who were used by the Martinites to vote for Christy. Many not citizens, many not residents. The inflated amount of membership by the Clarkites that could vote was less than 1200. Not the reported 2500.

3) Greg Wilson the NPA Campaign boss was one the phone fro hours daily with Marissen as reported by inside staff. It was appalling. He and Lynne Kennedy were foaming at the mouth about favouring Christy and she still lost!

Lather up all you want guys and gals, truth is: Sam Sullivan is the dragonslayer once again. Metcalfe for all his bluster did an admirable job.

And the real clincher: the Marissen/Martin machine blew it.

Elections are lost, not won.

Sousa, Real Deal: most of what you say is true. Sam outperformed Christy -- the proof is in the numbers.

But it is a fact that Christy recruited in only 10 days. She wasn't a candidate prior to that, and was not signing anybody up, because she wasn't a candidate.

I think she got no more than 10% of the overall membership of the NPA (the 2000 or so prior to the sign-up efforts by both sides). Given about a 50% turnout for those folks, that would give her about 100 votes from the current NPA membership.

That means that she got the other 1100 from her sign-ups, which means that she got about a 50% turnout from her list.

That's actually quite good. Most nominations, especially with lots of instant signups, garner only about a 30 - 35% turnout.

Where her campaign went totally wrong was with the current membership. They rallied around Sam Sullivan because they saw Christy as an invading force -- the Vancouver Courier also had an editorial comparing Christy's campaign to a "home invasion" (but with no guns or molotav cocktails).

So, yes, she was good at rallying her own troops. She just wasn't good at making any friends with the NPA regulars. That's why she lost.

I didn't see a single Indo-Canadian at the nomination meeting that looked like they felt they were being "used". They all looked very happy to me. They even left weddings and were in their wedding suits to make sure they voted. We were very proud to support Christy -- and there was a consensus in the community to support her. It is not often that we come to a community consensus. But she has paid a lot of attention to our community. She has been at every Vasakhi day parade ever since becoming MLA. She also did the same thing in Surrey. She also campaigned in Chinese community for Liberal Party and she is very well known.

The real deal is making stuff up:

"2) Clark's campaign was riddled with dirty tricks a la Martinite style from the beginning. There were dozens of Indo Canadians who were used by the Martinites to vote for Christy. Many not citizens, many not residents. The inflated amount of membership by the Clarkites that could vote was less than 1200. Not the reported 2500."

If that was the case, there would have been hundreds of people turned away from voting. Either that, or Christy got almost 100% turnout from her actual supporters.

THAT would be truly amazing.

So quit with the nonsense.

It's official..the NPA doesn't have a prayer at the polls.

Witness their power base...scattered, shattered, deluded and confused.

The only question left is..will it be 9-1 or 10-1?

Make that 10-0

If you don't see my invite on another thread..here it is:

On E night come done to the Jolly Alderman at 12th and Cambie for a chance at a free pitcher of beer. If the result is 10-0 for VV/COPE I'll give you a ticket to redeem with the bartender for a pitcher of beer. If the result is 9-1 for VV/COPE..you buy me a beer.

I'll be the guy wearing two buttons..9-1 and 10-0.

If you are an NPA supporter you need to move the odds in your favour..either don't vote NPA or just don't vote...your choice.

Hey Real Real, real bullshit is what you are.

Clark's campaign was RIDDLED with offside moves and underhanded crap, I can;t say anymore or I will out myself.

The Indos I spke to who were pals of mine all said the same thing: we;re here to support the community because Mr. Martin works hard for us.

My point was that she had exceptionally low turnout and has only herself to blame.

The rub is that they inflated their stick using the Indo Canadian vote (there's REAL racism but none of you useless bleeding hearts talk about that) to scare Sam Sullivan into submission.

Didn't work. Only served to screw themselves as you had to be a resident citizen and scads were not. There were hundreds of challenges before (not one showed) and almost a hundred challenges that day.

Once again, altogether, real, real is full of shit and a sore loser.

You need a trip down bendover drive.

Bye, bye.

Witness their power base...scattered, shattered, deluded and confused. - were you describing the NPA or COPE?

Pol 101

Do you keep flunking out of that class or hadn't you noticed that COPE and VV were able to co-ordinate their slates in order to give the left a huge advantage in November?

See you at the JA...sucker!!!

The interesting thing about all this crazy talk is that it's making me think that maybe, just maybe, all that even crazier stuff that Budd C. had to say may have had a miniscule grain of truth to it.

And then there's the fact that he is one of the few that actually called the outcome correctly.

Sheesh.

.

To the Christy supporters: quit bashing Sam. He's in a wheelchair, you know.

A note to obscurantist. Please read a couple of excerpts from your last message:

"Doubtless conspiracies do exist sometimes in politics, but as a general rule, it makes sense not to assume a conspiracy where simple ineptitude is an adequate explanation. ...

The way I see it, ..."

"The way I see it" is the operative statement. You have your interpretation, I have mine. As to how likely it is that some Liberals who intensely disliked Clark-Marrissen were setting her up, pretending to support this candidacy while actively undermining it, I would say the chance are very, very high. The reason is simple. The candidacy made no sense. The idea that someone from Port Moody, or Surrey, or even Burnaby would be a viable candidate for Vancouver City Council, let alone the Mayor's position, doesn't even pass the laugh test.

That it was made to APPEAR to be viable is a testament to power of the media build up treatment of a type we haven't really seen in BC since the 1986 Bill Vander Zalm comeback. Of course, that was an earlier time, and it worked, people bought it. Also, Vander Zalm's penchant for politically incorrect outbursts (eg no more French on the cornflakes) gave him a populist appeal, somewhat ala Manning and Reform, that the Clark-Marrissen duo conspicuously lacks.

Here's a question for you. Was the media build up part of the scam, carefully calculated to make her candidacy appear viable and even give her a front-runner status, just so that Sullivan could then be declared the surprise upset winner, the new champion, etc? I would say the chances of that are also very, very high. In that sense, the whole Christy escapade made perfect sense. A chance to turn a boring acclamation into a stuggle leading to a climactic victory, ... and now on to the general election against a man the Province calls on it's front page the "wily" Jim Green.

"No more French on the cornflakes"

HAHA! Hilarious!

God, if only Gordon Campbell or any other recent politician could be so bold.

I'd say bring back the Zalm just for the damn quotes!

Oh, and no more damn French on the freakin' rice krispies too! I've had enough of Trudeau's bullshit at the breakfast table!

HAHAHA!

Oh, and on the subject at hand, Go Sam Go! Someone had to put those corrupt Martinista bastards in their place, and he most certainly did.

"No more French on the cornflakes"

HAHA! Hilarious!

God, if only Gordon Campbell or any other recent politician could be so bold.

I'd say bring back the Zalm just for the damn quotes!

Oh, and no more damn French on the freakin' rice krispies too! I've had enough of Trudeau's bullshit at the breakfast table!

HAHAHA!

Oh, and on the subject at hand, Go Sam Go! Someone had to put those corrupt Martinista bastards in their place, and he most certainly did.

Budd,

You're not entirely off the mark in part of your last post. Many of us Sullivan supporters on the "inside" hoped that Clark's announcement was made to inspire such a "media build up... carefully calculated to make her candidacy appear viable and even give her a front-runner status." However those hopes were dashed when, instead of backing down before the nomination meeting (as one might have hoped), she kept steamrolling ahead; she actually wanted to win the mayor's chair and worked damn hard to get it. One can speculate as to her motives, but it was clear to all that she wanted to win.

No conspiracies here. Even Michael Moore would be tired with your hot air by now.

scammer

I don't think you have a clear grasp of BC's theory. CC/MM were NOT in on any conspiracy. They were the victims of a plot by highly placed Liberals who conned them into a lose/lose scenario. Even if CC had beaten SS, it was a pretty safe bet that she would have lost to Jim Green. Either way..she and MM become damaged goods. The proof of that will be the lack of real support from the party if she decides to run federally.
When that happens I think she will pull a reverse Stronach and cosy up to CCRAP.

Who needs fiction..reality is gd entertaining.

Scammer: Our fellow correspondent sleepswithangels has it right. I am not suggesting that the House of Clark-Marrissen went on a conscious kimikaze mission. On the contrary, their immense ego persuaded them that all the slimy entreaties ensuring them that Vancouver voters were just dying to pay homage to an outsider, ... provided that Christy, and only Christy, was that outsider, ... sounded entirely believable to these two overly ambitious politicos. That was one of the nicer touches. Like all good cons, the larceny of the victim was the one of the key operative ingredients.

In any case, Christy and Mark will have lots of time between each enlarged mortgage payment to prepare a political memoire explaining to all their true believers how they knew the odds all along, were never surprised, etc., etc. Yeah, ... right!

I think Budd Campbell is partly right -- GC and others would be happy to clip Christy's wings. The NPA also was interested in creating a contest, but had no particular love for Christy, and it evolved into animousity by a clever campaign conducted by "poor old Sam".

That being said, it was also a "win-win" for Gordon Campbell, because he hates Jim Green much more than he may be annoyed by Christy Clark.

Without Christy Clark in the race, Jim Green would have won. With Christy Clark in the race, Jim Green would have lost. No matter how much Gordon might not really like Christy, he would be much happier with this outcome.

Christy Clark would have cleaned Jim Green's clock with the most expensive campaign in Vancouver history. Young, vibrant woman against washed up old lefty hack -- we all know who would have won.

But, now Christy has elevated Sam Sullivan to the position of folk hero. Sam would have lost badly to Jim Green without the whole nomination hoopla. He's now a boy wonder against a washed up old lefty hack.

So, those who hate Christy but also hate Jim Green can be very, very happy now.

But they should at least send Christy some roses.

Because they now owe it all to her.

Well conspirator, you have left out one very major player. Jim Pattison has a high regard for Jim Green.

As for Christy easily defeating Green in the race that never was, ... well, ... I suppose the Clark-Marrissen's can add that to the political memoire they are preparing for the faithful.

hate..hate..hate
doesn't anybody love anymore?

Conspirator's hard on for Green may be clouding his ability to see the mile high writing on the wall. Green in a landslide. The clincher really had to be the spectacle of tainted memberships and all the other nonsense which transpired over the last two weeks within the two campaigns.

The voters get it..the NPA are a spent force. One side has an ardent Reaganite running things and the other side has a couple of neo con goldiggers who just got conned into paying 980 large for half a house..wow..yeah..she'd make a great mayor.

And Sam...I don't think the left and all the ethnic voters will forget that you went all out to prevent a ward system. They may have wasted their opportunity to vote Yes for wards but you can bet your Jim Green voodoo doll they'll vote YES for Jim in November to make up for that.

calling mm a neo-con is not right. don't know about cc, but i suspect that it's not true there either. cc is simply too loyal to whoever she's working for....attack dog, etc. etc. but she was always a provincial liberal, not a Socred.

mm is a left-wing Liberal who was really hot to trot about Haggard, Dosanjh, shirley chan and Larry Campbell. he's a big fan of Macphail, who is a new friend to both mm & cc after cc's cknw/bctv gigs.

let's not forget that mm engineered Larry Campbell's appointment, and this is the real reason for the NPA rejection of cc.

mm has very different views compared to the gordon campbell/bc lib folk. he's an eastern canadian Liberal. the kind interested in victory at any cost. now that he is in BC, whore to NDP sell-outs is a more accurate description for him.

mm never involved in bc libs other than to help his wife. Wonder how mm and cc discuss provincial politics.

gold-digger not accurate either. political hack/far-gone junkie much more accurate.

Very sharp insight fl

I have to admit that when I described CC/MM as neocons it was more of a spiteful dig than an accurate assessment. Though my gut tells me that these two are unprincipled enough to swing in what ever ideological direction their latest venture calls for.

So I will not be surprised to see them working for CCRAP when they finally realize that they are fully burned in all liberal camps.

Or maybe they can go play with Gord and Judy. Judy wouldn't hold the past against Gord..would she? If it all worked out they could sell the DVD's..wow..that would be hot!!!!
(to be clear..I am suggesting a CC/JT video romp)

I've managed to save up roughly $16804 in my bank account, but I'm not sure if I should buy a house or not. Do you think the market is stable or do you think that home prices will decrease by a lot?