Closer than Gillette

WOOPWOOPPPPWOO.......vancouver's safe from the Libranos.

Who did the NPA select for the three remaining council nominations? Or is that still going on?

The SS feeling Empowered

"Now the people will be suprised and I will beat the CRAP out of him (Jim Green)." - Sam Sullivan, live on BCTV

You mean didn't affect....YAWN you bore me

Colin's whining worked! unbelievable!

The three remaining council nominations went to Elizabeth Ball, Colleen Hardwick Nystedt, and Ronald Leung.

Margin of 64 or 69 votes, eh?

It may have been Christy's *Faux Paux* the other day, in front of the NPA membership, when she twice stated bringing in another "COPE majority".

Congratulations to the people of Vancouver. Even as someone who voted for Christy in 2001, I felt that this was a completely ill-advised and generally bad idea, and Sam Sullivan is infinitely more deserving of the mayor's seat than Clark or Green. Now to move on to the next vote.

Looks like little Mark Marissen was exposed as the loser that he is. Can't he win a nomination these days. The hype is over!

Well, Christy had some problems. She also didn't work to push her message enough - she left too many with the message that she was just running to prepare herself to be Premier.

Basically, as I said elsewhere, to win she needed to do the following:

1) Ape Hillary Clinton's strategy in terms of residency. Even though she might not be a Vancouverite, she could argue (convincingly, in my view) that she's been a de facto Vancouverite all her life, that the fate of Vancouver is inexoribly linked with the fate of all who live in her shadow, and, in effect, that "we're all Vancouverites." Also, I'd have made a point of being photographed in BC Lions/Canucks gear.

2) Establish a reason for running, beyond "I want to be Mayor so that I can be Premier", which didn't come across in the meida. The best way to do that, in my view, would have been to ride the crime issue.

"I didn't know how bad things had become when I was in Victoria. I want my son to be able to walk the streets of our city in safety."

Basically, her team made the classic mistake of making the election about her instead of making it about issues. She should have moved against Four Pillars - those NPA members who voted for Sullivan today are, in many cases, the same people who helped to push out Owen because of it.

Oh, by the way - Hi Kelvin. MSN me some time.

She's NOT a de facto Vancouverite. She's the absolute epitome of a parachute candidate in every sense of the word, running for mayor (not MLA or MP), so purely civic, of a city that is two cities away from her own. Also, what Sean forgot to mention was that earlier in the day (around 11am i think) there were a couple fender benders outside the Pinnacle Hotel that blocked entrances and caused a small ruckus for a while. Rumor has it that Christy's operatives were in on that as well, lol. Furthermore, with Christy's peeps handing out to invites to her "victory" party by 2:30 to practically anyone who would take one (Christy supporter or not, even blatant Sam supporters), was really quite classless on her part. Congrats Sam!! Now to kick some draft dodgers ass!!

She's NOT a de facto Vancouverite. She's the absolute epitome of a parachute candidate in every sense of the word, running for mayor (not MLA or MP), so purely civic, of a city that is two cities away from her own. Also, what Sean forgot to mention was that earlier in the day (around 11am i think) there were a couple fender benders outside the Pinnacle Hotel that blocked entrances and caused a small ruckus for a while. Rumor has it that Christy's operatives were in on that as well, lol. Furthermore, with Christy's peeps handing out to invites to her "victory" party by 2:30 to practically anyone who would take one (Christy supporter or not, even blatant Sam supporters), was really quite classless on her part. Congrats Sam!! Now to kick some draft dodgers ass!!

How typical of right wingers...they don't just hate minorities, the poor and left wingers..they hate each other too..quelle surprise.
Now that Canwest Goebels' darling Christy is a LOSER will they get behind the "guy in the chair"? Not that it matters...has anyone noticed that COPE and Vision ended up NOT shooting themselves in the foot....they had the brains not to self destruct like right wing losers are so fond of doing.

Two quick points : first, no-one seems to have mentioned the contrast between the COPE nominating meeting which attracted just over 200 members (mostly the usual suspects, i.e. all that's left of the aging and largely white Left), and the NPA meeting which drew 2100, from a wide range of backgrounds. Second, what is it with you people who are afraid to post under your real names? From what I've observed, the flakier the handle, the stupider the comments ("Nazi douche-bag"? That's the best you can do?).

Steve Hopkins: Who do think owns most of the guns in Canada? I'd bet hard cash that the vast majority of gun owners are right wingers prone to compensating for tiny endowments upstairs and down.

Yeah..I'm afraid of getting shot or otherwise harassed by your type Steve. Tough luck for you..you'll have to settle for beating on whatever or whoever is nearest.

Damn straight Right-Wingers hate minorities... ...I mean, Tung Chan, Richard Lee, Don Lee and now Ronald Chang must all be really self-hating Chinese. And Jennifer Clarke must be actually a man or something. Damn minorities, getting in the way of glorious WASP utopia.

But seriously, in response to F. Urqhart's comments, I actually think that Clark would've made a better case for being mayor had indeed ran a more issue-based campaign, but the fact that she didn't decide to run for the job until less than a month before the deadline, and her unwillingness to commit to Vancouver residency until she got the job (or the nomination, I forgot), made it very difficult for anyone to think beyond what she was planning to do after moving in at 12th and Cambie.

I also think it was for the long-term interest of the NPA not to look like a freakin' tool, for which they would certainly had paid the price had a handful of votes went the other way.

Ordinary New Democrats stand for forced labour by convicts? In the former Soviet Union, maybe. Or perhaps you're thinking of Daisy Chain, which is a pseudonym for Svend Robinson, if I'm not mistaken.

Gee Kelvin, hadn't you heard...Asians are no longer a minority in Vancouver. You must not get out too much...and women as a minority ?Maybe in the legislature and down on the docks but not anywhere else. Pretty thin sarcasm..but that's OK...you guys and gals can practice by painting bullseyes on each other.

Closer than Gillette, indeed.

Is it possible that Mr. Sullivan has one of those new fangled 6 bladed prototypes?

Erm if you had bothered to read my website and look around, you'd be able to figure out I'm actually Chinese, and actually I'm well aware of Vancouver demographics. But apparently we're not minorities because, you know, we're not oppressed by 'the man'.

And who ever said anything about guns? Geez... ...

Okay, on a more on-topic note, any (way too) early thoughts on the NPA 2008 mayoral nomination?

(Unless, of course, that Sullivan bucks the trend and, knock on wood, actually manages to win this thing.)

"Two quick points : first, no-one seems to have mentioned the contrast between the COPE nominating meeting which attracted just over 200 members...."

COPE's nomination meeting is tomorrow. You might be thinking of the meeting two weeks ago where COPE decided not to run a mayoral candidate and only to run five council candidates. At tomorrow's meeting, COPE will be acclaiming its five incumbents to run for council again, and choosing candidates for parks board and school board.

But fair enough - maybe there won't be anywhere near as many people at the COPE nominating meeting as there were at the NPA one. We can speculate on the reasons for this, as well as note that Vision Vancouver won't be holding a "nominating" meeting. Vision's three remaining candidates will be appointed by the executive after a closed-door interview process, so the public won't know who else wanted to run for them (if anyone).

hello plum blossom
I wasn't aware that it was possible to link your website to your postings here..I have chosen tonight to make my very first posts on this site.
I'm not a complete virgin though as Sean has quoted me on previous political issues.
If you read this thread you will notice a 'shot' fired at my handle (indirectly of course) to which I responded. While you may not be a card carrying NRA member (gets kind of confusing..NRA..NPA..not a lot ideological divide), a lot of your..ahem..fellow travellers are packin' heat and will get pretty testy when their team is trounced once more. 7 to 3..I think not...try 9 to 1.
You heard it here first...if I'm right I'll be at the Jolly Alderman E night with the big smile and a button which reads "9-1..you owe me a beer"

I thought it was complete drivel all along to suggest that Port Moody residents, the Clark-Marrissens, would be able to win even a seat on Vancouver City Council, let alone the Mayoralty.

But I have been told that they actually conned themselves into buying a $1 million half-duplex around 16th Avenue, not far from City Hall, to try to boost Christy's chances. What will they do with it now? Maybe the fall back plan is for Christy to step into Hedy Fry's Federal Vancouver Centre seat after Hedy is told by the Martinites to move on.

Then again, ... maybe not. Despite the apparently close result, which must at least implicitly contain the disturbing suggestion that far too many sports-minded Vancouverites, including all the fitness-fascists, would prefer a completely unqualified non-resident to an experienced candidate in a wheelchair, I still think this whole thing was a Liberal Party setup from the get go.

With this result in hand the national Liberals can start to downgrade Marrissen, who's become a headache for them, and the provincial Liberals can start to de-commission Christy, who's been a pain in the ass for Gordon Campbell. In effect, the Liberals got this bothersome couple a matching set of cement shoes, with a really big Vancouver city mortgage tacked on for additional ballast on the way to the bottom.

"Christy, who's been a pain in the ass for Gordon Campbell."

Yeah Budd..that's what usually happens when lovers fall out..but that's ancient history.
If there was any major media, federal police or crown prosecutors in this province not sucking on big biz bone we would be reading non stop about criminal charges aginst current and former bclib cabinet ministers..CC included.

As a Resident of Vancouver not unhappy Christy was defeated.
Has she ever had a "real" job not one associated with politics in one form or the other?

The CC can't stop Fibbing

Christy Clark said after the vote that she was reasonably satisfied as they had put the whole thing together in "only ten days".

Once a lying politico,
always a lying politico.

Just amazed about how worked up some of the posters can get about Christy -- think it is basically rank sexism that is quite unbecoming. would people get so worked up if a guy had tried to run at the last minute. hell no!!!! What's up with all the bile and bitterness against a woman? 119 years without a woman mayor is a miserable reccord for a supposedly progressive city and if the poor ladies are dragged through the mud like this it will probably be another 119.

amazed also to see the first thing done by sullivan is to commend colin metcalfe who i understand from earlier posting is or was some kind of a repulican campaign expert. so women aren't welcome but republican hacks are. try selling that!

wp..hold the phone...your're hearing sexism when you should be hearing disgust with neocon BS.
The sensitivity over sexism among feminists and women in general is usually well founded. It's not always a good idea to speak for others but I haven't detected any sexism in the sentiments of other posters on this thread who are sick of CC. What I do hear is that people are slowly but surely connecting the dots between what goes on in the White House and BC politics..Gordon Campbell style. The NPA, including both the SS and CC camps, are part of that sewer of corruption and as each day goes by more and more people are being informed by that realization. End result: right wing parties in Canada will become extinct (and diehard supporters will be rendered into soap for cleaning up the aftermath).

"Just amazed about how worked up some of the posters can get about Christy -- think it is basically rank sexism that is quite unbecoming. would people get so worked up if a guy had tried to run at the last minute. hell no!!!! "

This isn't about sexism, this was about Christy's ambitions getting the better of her. Everyone knew this was a stepping stone in a bid to become premier and that rankled people. Vanderzalm was similarly derided when he ran for mayor of Vancouver and wasn't a resident.

Don't forget, Clark already had a less than stellar record as a cabinet minister and had plenty of enemy's before even entering this race.

I notice that womanpower isn't willing to deal with the fact of Sullivan's quadrapalegia. Is that because she's afraid to acknowledge that her favourite candidate, an outsider with no experience, was secretly relying on votes from those who don't think a disabled person can be Mayor?

i think a linguist would see that the tone and tenor of the attacks on Christy in the media and in here reflect covert sexism ...a woman being ambitious just rankles, especially the old guard of a glorified seniors home like the NPA.

none of the talk is about her record as a minister, but mostly personal attacks about how she raises her family, what her husband is up to and on and on and on. viscious attacks, mostly from guys.

why is it noteworthy that her husband would lend a hand to her campaign when i assume green's gal will step up and help him out and posed in green's really solid newspaper ad last week???? it is a double standard christy has been subjected too -- just like mulroney talking about kim banging a russian or whatever it is when he would have commended a guy for doing the same thing. this whole episode has been a textbook case of sexism in action and it is sickening ... we need to import Hillary to clean up this sorry ass city.

WP...give it a rest
Your assessment of the NPA is bang on but you lose it after that.
I think your 'comfortable shoes' are a tad tight.

Now that's sexist.

show me a mention of the male canadiate's wife -- they're birkenstocks, btw, so the shoes aren't too tight honey.

"viscious attacks"

Hardley. This is tame. I've heard much worse used to describe Gordon Campbell and Glen Clark.

The closed-door process being used by (Blurry) Vision Vancouver is reminiscent of Am Johal's student politico days where he favoured the old politbureau style of governance.

Say there was actual sexism at work here, at the end of the day the women of Vancouver were totally free to get Clark nominated. Only a hundred more or so to take an interest, join the party, and vote for her. I certainly wasn't stopping anyone. The fact that it was the wrong decision was enough to do that.

OK then..let's have another go at CC & MM
Who else was put off when she became minister of education without having actually graduated from university..sure she made a big deal about attending the Sorbonne...right...who else thought that the Sorbonne in question actually belonged to Gordon Campbell?
As for MM...the stench of his dealings in BC on behalf of PM the PM linger and paint peels where ever this man and his beaatch go.

Happy now WP?

So now Sullvan is the candidate for the NPA. If Clarke bought a place in Vancouver is not the issue.They can flip it and probrably make some extra money for her next attempt in politics, a place she claimed to have left for the good of her child.

The issue is, are any of you folks actually going out to work for Jim Green as the leading candidate for Mayor? I can ask the same question for the NPA fans. Are you going to go out and work for Sullivan, because if you do you will run into C.C often as she says she will be working for all the NPA candidates. IF you beleive that, you will believe almost anything.

I don't see why she would keep a place where everyone knows where she lives. That was shameless the way that was splashed around the media.... and from the looks of this board, there are some left-wing wacko's out there who she should be afraid of.

Lucille
Your lack of grasp of the realities of political campaigns and how the media operates means that you shouldn't be slinging mud...you should be signing up for remedial english grammar lessons.

"...sexist, racist, libellous, discriminatory or defamatory". Hmmmm. S with A covers most of those bases. I repeat : Flaky handle = stupid commentary. Lie down with angels, get up with feather mites. Anyone too cowardly to use their real name should be ignored.

You would like that, wouldn't you Steve? Come on admit it...you'd also like it if you could carry your fully automatic assualt gun in public and wear your storm trooper gear while you hunt down people with superior intellects to yours.

Gee Steve..if you had your way there would be nobody left on the planet for you to ignore.

Suggesting that opposition to CC is sexist is thin at best (not to say that there may not be a sexist or two among the NPA grassroots).

The SOS campaign that organized 14,000 Vancouver letter writers to appeal to her to re-think her damaging Education policies was organized largely by PAC moms -- i.e. other women, many of whom were NPA supporters. Her stunningly arrogant dismissal of their concerns was not forgotten, nor were her stunningly sleazy efforts to discredit the entire SOS initiative as a union hack job through a whisper campaign to the press.

If there was any sexism here, it was evident in those who completely underestimated the depth of what many still considered essentially a "women's" (and thus less significant) political issue. What goes around, comes around...

Sam Sullivan has always come across as a rather grumpy guy. Everytime he speaks, he says something negative about the city. Jim Green, by contrast, has become a pragmatic, action-oriented politician who wants to build bridges between all Vancouverites. Look at his backers: they include a broad cross-section of the community--business people, labour unions, community activists, artists, and many others.

Sexism 101:

-- talking about how the candidate and her family raise kids -- Green has half-a-dozen, never gets mentioned
-- talking about the spouse -- Green's wife goes in the paper to help him, no one comments
-- Clark gets called ambitious -- Green runs for office at the drop of a hat, no problem, Sullivan = career politician, never a mention of his ambition
-- Vancouver Sun editorial on CC: "a long time love affair with politics" ...would that pillow-talk language ever be applied to a guy?

This result is, as i said, rank sexism, and an embarrassment to Vancouver. We halve lost a great gal as Mayor b/c of jurassic park at the NPA and pervasive sexism in the media.

it's obvious there is a double standard at work but the posters here just can't stop spewing bile at CC and her hubby long enough to see it.. Look at yourselves, you belong is a "gender roles and language" class of some kind. Maybe i could set up a web seminar via this site.

Christy was a great campaigner -- signed up over 2000 in 10 days. The NPA establishment didn't like her for a number of reasons, but the one not talked about is the fact that her support base is classic, post-Trudeau Federal Liberal: young people, gays and multicultural groups. These folks were out in full force at the meeting, and you could see the revulsion from the West-side snobs who couldn't handle the smell of garlic and curry.

Whiners like the posters on this site notwithstanding, Christy would have pulled together a winning coalition that would have spanned the entire city -- especially areas like South of Main, the downtown core (look at what Lorne Mayencourt did), the Chinese community, and all of the other ethnic communities. The West side would have had no choice but to vote for her.

This is why both Jim Green and Sam Sullivan were so scared of her. She is a television candidate in a television age who would have changed the entire vortex of the civic political landscape.

It's not too late, however. Sam Sullivan will lose to Jim Green. Christy can run in three years, and no one will talk about this parachute nonsense.

Christy was so classy throughout the campaign. Very positive about her newly adopted political party, the NPA. First thing Sam did when he won was thank the guy who caused the greatest amount of animousity: Colin Metcalfe. Christy was an afterthought.

It would have been a good chance for Sam to reach out to Christy's supporters, but he immediatly turned inward. The councillors on stage with him were singing koom-by-ya, so happy that Sam won and so happy that they weren't taken over by "les autres".

The funny thing is, they didn't get that Christy's crowd came in peace, and would have been a great help for a rejeuvenated NPA.

Looks like Sam couldn't give two shits about that.

Not a good omen for the campaign to come.

Watch for the bloodbath when Colin tries to fire Greg Wilson, and it is taken over entirely by the right-wing Conservatives -- the same guys who are at 20% in the polls in Vancouver.

womanpower dear, you've got your apples and oranges all mixed up, which makes your case for sexism a bit of a mess.

1)CC was the one who made her motherhood and her child an issue when she used it as the (rather feeble, I thought) excuse for abandoning the troubled children's ministry just months after accepting the post and realizing she was trapped in a lose/lose position politically. I haven't heard Jim Green do that yet, but if he does, the issue will be fair game if he turns around just months later to seize a more promising political opportunity.

2) Green's spouse is not a national powerbroker with the resources to (almost) steamroll overwhelming opposition by doubling his political party's membership in two weeks to secure him a shot at the Mayor's race (not that he needs it, after being crowned by Larry the Kingmaker).

3) Green's has apparently done some other things in life aside from pursuing politial power, whereas with our Christy, the pursuit of political power for the sake of power seems to be a sort of single minded obsession thing. She never even seemed to have any clear idea of why she wanted to be Mayor of Vancouver, apart from wanting to win the race and trounce leftist Green and COPE (and even that wasn't always 100% clear).

4) I agree with you about the Van Sun editorial, but what do you expect from them (or the rest of Christy's backers) whom I'd contend are the real sexists here?

So I suppose Camp Christy was soooo much more "diverse and multicultural" than Sam's camp because of Christy's influx of Indo-Canadian block vote. C'mon people, even Sean himself alluded to this in his postings yesterday! Granted Sam's camp had more "whitie whites" as some of you would put it, but his group also included a healthy balance of ALL ethnic groups in Vancouver, not just the Indo-Canadians, which represented by my estimation about 80% of her supporters in the ballroom. And BTW, to Sleepswithangels, I'll be sure to pack my trusty 10 gauge during the upcoming all candidates debates to finally put some of you COPE losers out of your misery so that average Vancouverites won't have to listen to your hateful, lying, venomous bullshit anymore. 'Nuff said!!

Wow,

I am actually very pleasantly surprised that Sam managed to edge out CC for the nomination.

CC and MM signed up 2000 new members and Sam only got about 1000 and there were about 2000 existing NPA members before the sign up blitz.

Seems obvious Sam got a big portion of his vote out and the existing NPAers voted overwhelmingly for Sam. I think that these facts says a lot about the organizational strength of the 2 different campaigns and perhaps also about the effectiveness of "instant" members (and if anyone seriously believes that the CC Team signed up 2000 people in only 10 days, there's a bridge I'd be happy to sell ya...).

The sour grapes from all the CC fan club people on this board are just hilarious: (i.e. CC lost because of sexism, Sam is not a good winner, cuz he thanked "evil" Colin M for helping him win the nomination blah blah). The CC fan club’s whining is all sour grapes from sore losers.

Also all this talk that Sam is the front man for the "evil" conservatives is ridiculous. Sam got widespread support for conservatives, liberals and neutral types. If any campaign found its support limited to a narrow political field it was CC's, after all did she get any significant support from non-federal liberals, (from the media coverage it would appear that she did not).

I wager that CC will not move out of Vancouver but will focus on running in a future federal election in Vancouver, (not necessarily the next one). Port Moody is not a Fed Liberal friendly riding for her to run in.

In any case it will be fun to see how the NPA does in November and whether the CC and MM team sticks around to help the NPA out in November.

Cheers

oopz... I might have posted this on the wrong posting, here it is for the masses:
---

Yep. I wuz at the npa nomination shin-dig yesterday.

There were busloads and vanloads and carloads of people from the Christy Clarkz side. Talk about blatant and obvious opportunisism.

My sikh friends told me that all their memberships had been Paid for by Mark and Christy's campaign ... and that their people knew how important this is to collect government favours for their community. In fact, he quipped that his grandmother and uncles don't even live in Vancouver and don't what an npa is...but they get a free visit to the city, get a free meal and meet friends.

Sam won the nomination anyways.

Posted by Col on September 25, 2005 08:57 AM

Bob Barker wrote:

"And BTW, to Sleepswithangels, I'll be sure to pack my trusty 10 gauge during the upcoming all candidates debates to finally put some of you COPE losers out of your misery so that average Vancouverites won't have to listen to your hateful, lying, venomous bullshit anymore."

Bob - I'll be supporting COPE, and I want you to know that "S.W.A." doesn't speak for me, and I don't think he speaks for anybody in COPE either. I agree that his comments are as you describe them. I likewise hope that your comments don't reflect the views of people in any other political organization. Man, there's a lot of venomous bullshit flying around in the comments on this board.

Obscurantist, I believe in an open dialogue that centers around ISSUES and not personalities, racial divides, etc. that always seems rear its ugly head during political campaigns. My comments aimed at Sleepswithangels were just an attempt have a little bit of satirical fun with such ridiculous, off-the-wall, venomous comments made by especially himself on this board. Seriously, NPA members packing heat?!?!? Hopefully I'd like to think that Joe Average Vancouverite is intelligent enough not to believe that absolute garbage. Certainly both sides will have heated debates in the coming weeks, but hopefully they will remain at least somewhat cordial, not resorting to the usual bottom-feeding mud slinging voters normally have to endure.

Sousa,

Seriously, it was 10 days - I know.

"And BTW, to Sleepswithangels, I'll be sure to pack my trusty 10 gauge during the upcoming all candidates debates to finally put some of you COPE losers out of your misery so that average Vancouverites won't have to listen to your hateful, lying, venomous bullshit anymore"

I'm always fond of saying the truth hurts...and gosh darn if I'm not right again. So instead of trying to counter my observations, which,btw have been developed through years of access to insider info, the chronically uptight and dim witted likes of Bob Barker and Steve Hopkins can only lash out at the messenger...not refute my claims. You know why I'm not concerned about libel suits resulting from my comments? They are true.
Obscurantist..politics is a blood sport..like it or not. Did you bother to attend the COPE nominations today..I did..or are you just another armchair PC whiner?

Well, unfortunately Sleepswithangels proves Joe Vancouverite wrong again with his mind-blowing analysis of the comments of yours truly. Seriously, SWA, ever heard of a thing called SATIRE?!?!? I'm not about to make light of people with real mental issues, but you, buddy, have some dangerous mental issues you need to deal with if you're going to take my comments so seriously. If no wonder why the average voter doesn't want to get engaged in politics when they have to deal with the venomous, and possibly libelous comments uttered by the likes of SWA!!

Col
I had to snicker with delight while reading of your friend's experience with CC's paying for their memberships etc.
A friend of mine in the South Asian community was called up the other day by CC's team to make sure that he, as an NPA member, would be showing up to vote for Christy...this was news to him..he had no clue that he was a member.

It seems that Marissen can't kick his 'dirty tricks' modus operandi. You had to wonder at his competence when he found it necessary to stack the Liberal membership with phony members in order to make sure that Paul Martin became leader. Why take that kind of risk when he had virtually no competition for the job. Shelia Copps never exceeded 15% in polling for the nomination.
MM's prediliction for fraudulent tactics speaks volumes about his and CC's integrity or lack thereof.

Ding dong, the witch is dead!

S with A asks "You know why I'm not concerned about libel suits resulting from my comments?" Because he hides behind an alias. Who cares what an anonymous name-caller thinks, no matter how many years of "insider info" he claims to have? With cowardly, psychopathic friends like S with A, COPE needs no enemies.

Gee Bob..your're not very bright are you?
Can you show by quotes where I took your 10 guage comment seriously? I don't think so. I didn't even comment on it..I just quoted it.
My reference to your being uptight and dim witted had everything to do with your inability to counter my assertions and your resorting to a personal attack due to your lack of intelligence and humour.
It appears that you are the one who can't recognize satire.

Thanks Steve..right on cue..this is like shooting fish in a shot glass.
Do you know what an IP address is Steve?
My email address is real (unlike many here) and I can be tracked down as I am using my own computer from my own home.
You and Bob should hang out..misery loves company and if you put your IQ's together and convert that number to a dollar amount you'll be able to share a jelly bean.

SWA, I am still floored by your ridiculous generalities about the rank and file NPA members packing heat wherever they go. That would be about the same as me stating that your COPE buddies like Tim Louis would be armed and dangerous in the sight of Wal-Mart officials because of their ideological hatred towards them...i.e. "Wal-Mart is the biggest corporate criminal in the world." Seriously, SWA, what would your buddies in the COPE executive think when they find out that one of their hardliner members is spewing such venomous, libelous, narrow-minded hatred of others in such a public domain?? As for me, I really could care less if you continue, since you're reducing the chances of COPE having a fair fight since you're personally ruining their chances by shooting them and yourself in the foot!!

To many commets already I know. I had to get in a few from my perspective. First off, I actually think Christy had a better chance of defeating ultra flake Jim Green, in part because she is a woman, and an attractive one that generally knows what to say, and when to say it. No question that Sullivan was the better PERSON for the job. Not because he was a man, but because he had served his time on Council and called Vancouver home for more than simply 10 days.

Does that make Sam the perfect candidate? Not exactly, at times I thought he came across like a whiner, but one thing I do admire about Sullivan – if you talk to many people outside of the lower mainland they are often amazed to learn that Sam uses a wheelchair. My point being that he never uses his disability as a crutch, nor as an aide, it is only a part of who he is.

What mostly swayed me was Christy trying to play Provincial politics and sticking her head in the BCTF dispute. As the former education Minister she had all kinds of opportunities to throw an olive branch to the BCTF and she never did, quite the opposite in reality. So why would she suddenly think it is such a great idea ? I have a problem with politicians who cross jurisdictional lines simply to chase votes. As much as I have come to respect Larry Campbell in many ways, he also needs to learn when to draw the line. He bailed on civic politics and jumped onto the Federal pork barrel so to me that suggests he should keep his nose out of municipal matters, otherwise why bail out in the first place?

Bob...lots of noise..no smarts. Let me make this simple so you can understand. Everything printed here is available, for those who can both read AND comprehend, to study at a later date.

Never mind the fact that you are avoiding my direct challenge to show where I took your so called satire seriously...now you are saying that people should take my own satirical comments as a serious statement which confers a status of mental illness on me.
You can't have it both ways Bob..but that won't stop you from trying.

BTW...How is that lobotomy working for you?

1288 to 1207

There were no big challenges in the count room, that's just how long it takes to count almost 2500 ballots. The Council and Parks Board ballots took quite a while and were counted first.

Re the whoe role of sexism in Vancouver politics --

I don't think it's anybody's darn business how Mz Clark raises her family and I don't think a man in the same position would be asked the same questions. How many male politicians say they are leaving for family reasons then turn out to be banging the secratary and it was all a hoax? There is a high level of sincereity with the lady!!!

My point is further made about the sexism by the attacks here on her husband, who wasn't running for anything. We see Jim Green parading his wife through the campaign ads like Mila Mulroney and no one comments...exactly my point.

Now we get down to racial profiling of Mz Clark's supporters. Ridiculing them for taking the bus to the meeting is a bit low, as far as I am concenred -- should be increasing the use of public transit not ridiculing those who use it.

TAKE ONE PART SEXISM ADD ONE PART RACIAL PROFILING AND CALL IT VANCOUVER POLITICS!!!

Get a grip, 'womanpower' and stop whining. Christy Clark lost. Tough shit. It's a tough world and she shouldn't be handed a nomination because she's a woman. Besides, when she was a Liberal CabMin, she was Attilla the Hun. You're saying she's representative of any sort of 'oppressed' woman group. give me a frickin' break.

Hey, Holman.

It's Dagmar.

Pretty good debate going here, huh? Seems to me that you've built up enough of a following to start your own 'rabble-esque' message board on BC Politics. You could make use it to promote Public Eye, maybe sell some ad space. From my own self interested view, it's a good idea. Cause I (along with Stevie Dag, Steve 3:16, DDT, Big D, Al Czervik, et al.) have been banned from Rabble and it's getting pretty hard just trolling around my own blog. Hey, I could be a moderator for part of your new Holman-style Babble. I call the Middle East forum!!!

XOXO

Dagmar

A pox on both the COPE & NPA houses, I want Kevin Potvin for Mayor!

The tenor of this whole debate shows clearly the level of sexism that still exists in socisty. I am not a supporter f Christy, but it is clear that sexism played a significant role in the engineering of her defeat.

And, before you think that the political left is any better, consider this: The NDP Provincial Council, last weekend, DEFEATED a WRC motion to bring forward an anti-harassment policy. The most disgusting part was the fact that those who spoke against it were white males, pretending to oppose the motion on 'progressive' grounds, pretending to want a 'stronger' policy. In reality, they just want to keep the NDP for themselves.

Women have a long way to go to achieve full equality in politics.

offended
If you think that sexism played a significant role in her defeat it shows how out of touch you are with reality. I'm sure sexism was a leading factor for a number of old guard farts in the NPA but it ranks well behind more compelling factors such as:

- CC has the stench of corruption about her..SS doesn't
- SS has earned the right to represent the NPA..CC has not
- CC resorted to fraudulent campaign tactics...SS did not

and so on...blah blah blah

I've had my own problems with the NDP PE but it is a body that any member can work to change..starting with campaigning to be on that executive..so stop whining and start sucking up..you'll need the votes.

"politics is a blood sport..like it or not. Did you bother to attend the COPE nominations today..I did..or are you just another armchair PC whiner?"

The latter (I'm just another armchair PC whiner). And yeah, politics can be a nasty business, but that doesn't mean that being nasty is always the best approach.

ob..I agree up to a point. I subscribe to the "different strokes for different folks" school of thought.
You would be surprised how many people avail themselves of these forums to speak their mind without fear of reprisals at home, at work or among friends and associates.
Personally..being nasty works for me in the world of politics where dogs are eating elephants and weasels on a daily basis. I get the opportunity to pee with the pros..for me it's not theoretical.
Half of my day job is in the local television industry and I gotta be nice so online forums and politics are healthy outlets for my aggression.
Don't like it..KMA or ESAD or FOAD..your choice

CC isn't waiting 3 years for another kick at the can. This isn't over yet!

sleeps with angels says:

- CC has the stench of corruption about her..SS doesn't

what on earth are you talking about? so far you have only offered bullshit and innuendo.

- SS has earned the right to represent the NPA..CC has not

that is a perfectly legitimate opinion.

- CC resorted to fraudulent campaign tactics...SS did not

complete bullshit. she followed every rule, acted with great class, while Sam played the poor cripple.

"sleeps with angels" - you are so full of hate and venom you must be a Harper Conservative.

I think Christy's supporters should tell the NPA to take a hike, and they should work for Jim Green. At least he's in league with Larry Campbell, who is a Liberal. These NPA guys are better suited for the old Social Credit Party.

Yeah, liberal, I thought it was pretty classy to hand out invites to her victory party before the polls closed (only to sigh, hours later, "what d'you expect, we only had 10 days."

...like it was pretty classy to pull the Mummy card to duck out of a lose-lose cabinet posting

...and pretty classy to use the Sexism card to dump on the party she was using to get the Mayor's chair, as she repositions herself for the next political opportunity.

The comments by "womanpower", "Lucille Humphreys" and "ko" are really dishonest and cowardly.

I already asked womanpower when she will, in a honourable and straightforward way, deal with and acknowledge the fact of Sullivan's quadrapalegia. She knows very well that her favourite candidate, Christy Clark, was perfectly happy to collect votes from all the fitness fascists around town who don't think a man in wheelchair is "vigorous" enough to be Mayor. Yet these people are quite willing to make angry claims that their candidate was the victim of sexism, racism and even homophobia.

Lucille's dishonest warnings about the House of Clark-Marrissen's new million dollar half-duplex are perhaps the crowning touch. Here is a candidate privileged enough to have backers willing to help finance an immense purchase she and her husband cannot possibly afford by themselves, and Lucille is now trying to turn this kind of six figure windfall into some kind of risk factor. How completely insincere can people be???

The truth is plain for everyone to see. This couple had become a liability for the Liberal Party and had to be brought under control. A political defeat to take the wind out of their sails, plus a major financial burden to shoulder, even after the generosity of numerous political associates has been factored in, and this couple will now be much chastened, prepared to be good to the party so that the party will be good to them.

liberal

cry me a river baby...boo hoo

and please..change that diaper..your're stinkin' up the joint

I think there's a conspiracy here, and the conspiracy is to make the comments section of this web site so turgidly full of ridiculous accusations and name-calling that the people who actually try to say something meaningful or learn something get bored and stop posting / reading.

The only question is, who's in on the conspiracy?

Budd - what are you suggesting? That NPA/Liberal backers helped finance her house?

I looked on the mls listings. Her house in Port Moody is not listed, but houses very similar are in the $800,000 range. If they bought their Vancouver place for $920,000, it is not that much of a stretch for someone coming from Port Moody looking for a house in the city. A bank would be happy to increase a mortgage in that way.

If they wanted something comparable to their home in Port Moody (big house, big lot, great view -- I am told that they can see downtown from their bedroom window) they would need to spend closer to $1.5 to $2 million, depending on where they were looking in Vancouver.

No need for any financiers when they chose to downsize.

sleepswithdevils

I tried that once..ok it was more than once. I switched to angels...got tired of changing scorched sheets.

Budd's observations and well researched insight are usually bang on but I also think CC/MM would have plenty of ready cash for that purchase.

Let's do the math...77 MLA's splitting up a 5% across the board kickback from 4 years of government business. My guess is that they are under strict orders not to flash too much of that around town..so you won't see Mayencourt snorting lines in the back of a Maybach 62 here... but in SF...better have your DV cam batteries all charged up.

every campaign has a victory party, and is arranged before anyone knows what the result is. nothing strange about that. you always call the after party the "victory" party, and your supporters want to know where it is, so you hand out little sheets of paper to let them know where it is.

getting dizzy...room is spinning..gonna hurl...nope...gonna pee myself instead...laughing

The only problem with the Clark party was its location. Would have been nice to see all involved get together and congratulate each other for a hard-fought campaign. Instead the exhausted minions remained literally miles apart. You can't, though, fault her for organizing and announcing the shindig in advance.

Gee PA...you almost make CC and her team seem human...I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

Everyone who has been involved in a campaign knows that the wrap party is announced in advance because folks are busy and scattered about...that's why the invites are supposed to be handed out well in advance..not in a blatant manner on N-Day in the presence of all.

Yes, Christie's supporters are humans.

What animals did you think they were, sleepswithangels?

Maybe you should have gotten to know her. I think Christie is the best woman in the country on the political scene. She is a great human being -- and you would think so too if you would stop for just a moment and give it some thought. I am sure that Sam is a pretty good human being too. Most people are. But it sounds like you have a toxic heart, even though you claim to sleep with angels. Guys like you can keep denegrating her, but you gotta admit it was very impressive that she could walk into town and just about take over the NPA, even though all of the establishment was arrayed against her. Correction. ALMOST all of the establishment. The only establishment to support her was the old, old establishment in the personages of Marty Zlotnik and May Brown. Funny, when those guys were in charge, the NPA actually used to win things.

Now, the NPA is run by the third-generation Shaunessy penny-loafer crowd aghast at the possibility that someone like Christy -- with her unseemly stomping grounds located on the other side of Boundary Road when growing up -- could come in.

Don't they know that Vancouver, and British Columbia was BUILT by swashbucklers, carpetbaggers and "opportunitists"? It's what makes this place so great!

Are we now becoming a community with the same kind of inward-looking inbreeding we all left behind in the old country?

Tell me it ain't so. That means there is nothing left to Canada's frontier.

Tell that to the thousands of immigrants arriving into Canada every day.

From sleepingwithdevils:

"Budd - what are you suggesting? That NPA/Liberal backers helped finance her house?"

More or less, ... yeah. I don't know about NPA types, but Liberal types of one sort or another must have chipped in. After all, the Clark-Marrissens are stuck paying for Hamish's pablum supplies, plus all of Mark's Board of Trade lunchs where he learns from D'Arcy Razor how to collect business cards.

"I looked on the mls listings. Her house in Port Moody is not listed, but houses very similar are in the $800,000 range."

A brand new Parklane palatial in Port Moody goes for $700,000. How on earth did Christy and Mark get into something like that based on Mark's party animal paychecks and her insecure MLA, later Cabinet Minister income??? What banker thought all this was guaranteed cash flow? Give me a break!

I would be real suprised if they were able to sell out of Moody for over $500, and there was probably a fair bit of mortgage left to go, ... unless, of coures, Mark's Fed Lib consulting and lobbying gigs have become a licence to print money. And I don't have to tell you that with the extraordinarily high standards of probity and fiscal rectitude that Our Nation's Liberal Govt has displayed over the last Ten Great Years, with Paul Martin first as Finance Min, now Prime Min, that any thought of Mark connecting to easy cash at the Fed Lib trough is just too silly for words.

So, ... how the hell did they do it??? And what was the actual sale figure, and the amount of the undischarged mortgages and other liens, if any?

And most importantly, ... wait for it, ... what the Hell do they plan to do with these new digs NOW? Use them as a base to challenge Hedy Fry in Van Centre???

human: you say "she could walk into town and just about take over the NPA", that line of thinking killed her, made her the enemy of majority of NPAer.

human

yes I'd like to get to 'know' Christy..what man with functioning EQ wouldn't? hell..MM could even watch

and yes...carpetbaggers and opportunists built BC and are destroying it as we spin and speak

The Liberal 'setup' of CC can work even if she had beat SS...you can bet MM is already fine tuning the spin that it was better to lose to SS now than to lose to Green in November..hell..he's got a 2 month lead on lining up his next 'situation'.

Of course MM is the only one who can derive any comfort from that logic...CC will have to seek her comfort elsewhere.
I've got a 'cold' one with your name on it babe.
We can make little revolutionaries together.

For those of you a slower on the draw. CC/MM took the bait and put themselves right in the middle of a lose/lose 'situation'.

Hell..they even bought half a house for 980 large.

That's so cold...pm...you got some style

Marissen has worked his butt off for the Liberals all of his life. Best result in BC since Trudeaumania. No way would he or his missus ever go to another political party.

And it was a good thing that the federal Liberals now have Dosanjh, Emerson, Keith Martin, Haggard, etc. The old guard (Gibson, Fitzpatrick, et al) would never have opened up the party to these folks. They only cared about their own little, puny power base. Couldn't give a shit about the grassroots.

Almost all of the grassroots Libs in Vancouver rallied around Christy. The only ones opposed were the snobs from Vancouver Quadra who didn't like all the Indos, and can't stand that they aren't in charge. Good thing for May Brown, though. She has her principles and sticks by good, solid, progressive women like Christy.

Mark Marissen, Bill Cunningham, Mike Witherly, Doug Beaton, Bruce Clark, Mike Hillman, Jamie Elmhirst, Sharon Apsey, are all down-to-earth fun people who care about politics and the clout of BC in Ottawa.

They aren't a bunch of cynical goons like most of the folks who have posted.

jp

From one cynical goon to another...two words

Sheila Copps

I used to labour under the illusion that only conservatives ate their own..then the Libs moved to the right of center and guess what....

Cannibal City

MM and his gang, in the pursuit of power, picked up some dirty baggage along the way and are now a liability to their eastern masters.

Now they can take up a line of work that suits their talents..say toxic waste dumping..or become a part of their natural constituency..CCRAP.

Funny you should say that, because all of the Sheila Copps supporters in BC were supporting Christy. As were the Dhaliwal workers, the Allan Rock workers, etc., etc.

It was the old-time Quadra Martinites who couldn't get a Senate Seat (mad about Larry Campbell) like Gordon Gibson who stood against CC.

But the real grassroots were on-side for the "machine".

funny

when the "grassroots" players involve themselves in such an obscene lust for power
can the invasion of Poland be
very far away?

invasion of vancouver enough.

With their current track record I expect the invasion will be redirected to the bible belt.

I predict CC/MM will get religion as a prelude for an assualt on the CCRAP leadership.

Today we conquer Chilliwack..then we take..

some pills and wonder where it all went wrong.