Vinning stars as himself

Yesterday, former Olympic wrestler Daniel Igali announced, with Premier Gordon Campbell at his side, that he would be running for the provincial Liberals in the next election. That announcement wasn't especially surprising. After all, Mr. Igali had long been rumoured to be joining the Campbellites. But it somewhat surprising to see veteran Indo-Canadian political hack Prem Vinning was one of the event organizer. No word yet on what else he's doing for the Liberals - perhaps calling-in to talk shows?


I have always admired Mr. Igali for the courage and perseverance he has shown throughout his life. I do however feel that his wonderful attributes are completely contrary to the Liberals track record and what they may have planned for the future.

The "new look", softer Igaliberals don't fool me.

Prem Vinning - now there is someone who truly represents the core values of Campbell and his puppets.

As a top level athlete, Mr Igali has had a lot of experience avoiding drugs and drug controvercies. This is exactly the type of person Campbell needs to replace Collins.

atleast we have a high profile candidate,,


I just want to say that the economy is going great guns.

High profile maybe. He's got his work cut out for him in that riding. I could think of a number of other ridings that would be easier for him to win.

Whats the point of running star candidates in easy to win ridings?

Daniel Igali is being used, he is being put in a riding that is hard to win, the reason why the Liberals did not run him in Gary Collins riding.

I hope our premier made it over ok over the busy Fraser River crossing yesterday. Gord I hope you could come over for a drink sometime, I appreciate our economy going great guns.


How typical of the Liberals to assume that Igali would have the support of the Indo-Canadian population just because they like the way he plays Kabaddi. As far as Kevin Falcon's recent statement that "Daniel has a good opportunity to win some proportion of the Indo-Canadian vote", he's right. I understand that the estimated "proportion" of support, at least in the Surrey/Delta area, is about 5 per cent, for any Liberal candidate.

IGALIBERALS - I love it. Thanks Sugar.

Daniel who??????????????

Daniel who??????????????

who in thehell is spinning carole james???,,
the pressure is on,,,


I don't understand what experience Igali has that makes him a star candidate. Wrestling? Wrestling is political experience? Kabbali is years of dedicated work within the community? Why is he a role model? I appreciate the Olympic medal, and I think its fantastic that he sacrificed years of his life for his sport, but it was for his sport. The recognition of Canadian atheletes was, and is fantastic, and I'm happy for him, but what is it about his personal ideas and policies that constituents will see as beneficial?

well chelsea,,
it,s called leadership,,the ability to solve a problem with no easy answer.
do you sugar , or chelsea have any idea how much hard work goes into an athelete,s schedule,,
so take the fork out of your mouth, and thank gordo that u acctually have a job,,

Do all recent addtions to the liberals appear as blatant pandering???

Who would the Liberals be pandering to with Daniel Igali?

Olympic gold medal winners? Nigerian refugees? SFU grads? BC people with post graduate degrees?

Daniel Igali is hardly pandering unless choosing a Canadian that has worked hard to achieve what he wants in his life is pandering.

Yes he is young, but not dramatically young. Certainly he has achieved much more at age 31 than most people will by age 50

This is a guy that in his teens had to support his family, that has known a type of poverty that is unthinkable to people in BC, that lived under a brutal dictatorship that people born in Canada do not understand.

A man that took the physical skills given him and used them to be able to succeed in his life.

Frankly, there are very few people running for MLA in BC in the next election that have as much life experience as Daniel Igali has had. This is a man that has been the best in the world in a field - something very people in BC can say, let alone the people running for MLA. This is man that is grateful for being allowed to be in Canada and contribute. This is a man that has more education that most people running for MLA is BC.

It is almost as people are saying that being successful in what you set out to do is a bad thing, or that because he happens to have black skin he should not be a Liberal.

Daniel Igali clearly choose the Liberals because they are in his belief the best party to govern BC.

Hey, nic
I don't have a job. Who do I thank? I got laid off in the cut-backs to social programs. i.e I was given the choice of, after years of working myself into a day job, and going home at night, to going back to living 15 days out of 30 in a group home. My family would rather I didn't. Seems that high risk youth (mine was a sexual predator) don't need an adult following them around during the day. The 24 hour staff(all one of them) can do that. (If they want to...they don't have to) Guess that's why they have to start building tall walls around houses, like they're doing on the Island.

Kathy- "nic" is a troll. All of his posts are either incoherent or just don`t make sense.

Is calling people who you don't agree with 'trolls' the best you dippers could do?

Not having a job and complaining about it is the typical NDP thing to do. Job searching has not been so easy in BC for years and years now. I'm glad the BC Liberals are restoring opportunities to British Columbians with enough sense of common to take advantage of it.



Bravo and well written Bernard - to some of the people it is okay to be Indo-Canadian and become a NDP premier but not okay to be from Nigeria, an Olympic gold medallist and run for politics. The real fear of the NDP posters must be that Daniel just might hold the riding for the Liberals and go onto a substanial career in politics.

Daniel has no hope of getting the Indo-Canadian vote. They, as well as a lot of others are feed up with "names", who have done nothing in their own communities who figure they are "givens" This from an executive of the Scott Road temple (supported by five temples in all.) Only time will tell, I guess. As far as job searching not being easy for years, I agree...about as many years as the Liberals have been in. The most lucritive years were the seventies. (I never cared much for Glen Clark, even though Jim Pattison thinks the world of him. Barrett tried to move too fast, but the crown corps he created are still around) Insofar as job searching...hate to disappoint you, but even though I don't have a job, per say, I am bringing in a paycheck doing casual and relief work for various agencies, plus developing a database for an organization who will be opening an office soon. THEN I'll have a real job. As far as candidates, at least the NDP have nomination meetings. Gordo handpicks his friends and insiders, then makes the announcements himself.

First of all, I have alot of respect for Daniel Igali, with regards to what he's done with his life, the paths travelled, and his accomplishments to date. Who could forget the moment he won gold for Canada on the wrestling mat. As far as politics goes, well he's as welcome to run as anyone else really. It's only too bad that Gordo has no doubt promised him the world (perhaps the Minister of Fitness and Amateur Sport?)

Who knows which way the Indo Canadian community will go, but I don't think that Daniel's Nigerian background is either an asset or detriment to his chances. And heck it was his first political press conference, and its too bad he struggled with the prepared statement on the reasons he's getting into politics. The truly hard thing for him, will be trying to justify the bad news items of a government that until less than 100 days before an election, he has shown no interest in.

Its easy to focus on the "going great guns" economy, when things are clicking along smoothly, with resource prices up, but when the focus turns to the dirty deals, broken promises, and hypocrisy of the Campbell government's record, well there's reasons why Collins, Clark, and others have abandoned the SS Gordon "titanic" Campbell.

And to BH, and his comments about "not having a job and complaining about it"... well if I was one of the thousands of people displaced or laid off by this government, or who had their wages frozen or in the case of HEU had their wages and benefits cut, because of this government's need for a 2 billion dollar surplus, rather than a simply balanced budget, you bet I would be complaining vociferously. No different than when Campbell was in opposition, crying and whining the blues about expanded gambling, and underfunding of the Ministry of Children and Families.

Yet, when in Government, what did he do??? Cut cut cut cut. And expand gambling, breaking a moral pact he made with his tea tottling friends. It's not the fact that there's a surplus in this budget that should be focused on. Much like Campbell loved to do during the last 2 years of the NDP government, the focus should be on how he arrived at the surplus. Last I looked, my MSP premiums are still 50% higher than they were in the NDP days. My Pharmacare deductible is still higher than under the NDP, and I have to pay 100% out of my pocket to see a physio, chiropractor, massage therapy, or get an eye test, something I didn't have to do under the NDP. And even then, an independant financial audit has shown that the numbers Campbell foisted upon the public upon coming into office, justifying the massive cuts to services and increases in user fees, was fertilizer.

Ohh I'm sorry, that's right I'm an NDP supporter BH, but I do have a job, and I'm not whining about it. I am however ticked off over how much money this government has taken out of my pocket, and the mean spiritness that its gone about its business. Looking after corporations and friends of the party (the donors list of the BC Liberals reads like a list of contractors who have tremendously benefitted from handouts and corporate welfare). If this were a true Liberal government, middle of the spectrum, they might have had a chance with some moderate people. But fact is, the Liberals are leaving publicly and privately, as they can't stand Gordo, and the other neo cons that have hijacked their party.

Daniel may have life experiences, by some definition, but his credibility will ultimately be established if he is able to debate and know the politicies of government.

Note: during his annoucement, he was asked what politician inspired him - answer - Svend Robinson.

I look forward to more discussion from him.

Mind Food

Kegler sums up the NDP philosophy very well. Complain bitterly about having to pay for something out of your own pocket that you might actually benefit from. As long as someone else who makes more money pays for you instead it is all OK. Kind of like the tax cut argument; if you don’t actually pay taxes you did not benefit from paying less.

I'm not sure what's so bad about the entire population investing, together, in each others lives, Kevin Larsen. If you look at places where there is no such arrangement, the situation is grim. You need healthy employees to have a strong economy; you need child care so parents can work; you need an educated work force so good industries and jobs are retained. Who says you make more than Kegler, anyway? For all you know, he was supplementing your benefits, not the other way around. It isn't just the working-poor who support the NDP- you'd be surprised the amount of people, in all walks of life, who prefer to live life as a team, rather than as an singular person, resenting every penny that goes to someone who needs it.

kegler comes across as a knowledgeable southpaw...
since by virtue of utter incompetence, should the ndp garner less than 30 percent in may..where will thy
this party is missing a golden oppurtunity,sad.

as for parkhurst, thanks for the compliment.

cool it chelsea i can,t name one liberal that resents money directed to people who are in need.

like i have said before , we support a system that is for all people that NEED help, not the ones that expect a handout because there lazy.
having a job is a good feeling for many people, but the feeling of confidence rises when you know that you acctually busted yor as to keep it.

i know i speek for the majour of the b.c middle class,, these guys are not perfect, but there is a sense of stability that i like,,stay the course.

Yeah, the consistency and stability of lowering wages, privatising off assets and services, gunning for poor people, screwing seniors,breaking contracts, screwing up health care,cuting education, destroying environmental standards,and always putting big business needs ahead of everyone else.These guys are not perfect indeed, and they are also corrupt.Oh yes, they also have perfected the big lie technique.Just repeat the lie over and over, you know better services as they cut 40% of budgets, better services as children die because they cannot save everyone and cutting services is so much more important, bettr heqlth care, beter services for children, fudged employment stats,selling off of BC rail, ferry debacle . But you know since they do not have pensions now, well they have to get by somehow so screw ethics and ideals.Give your head a shake Daniel Igali.

I'm not too familar with surrey, so I don't know if Daniel Igali will win or lose.

But either way he is a star candidate and he is the best bet for the BC Libs in that riding. Hence Tony Bullar moving to Panaroma Ridge to take on the new NDP MLA.

By the way it is pretty pathetic for alot of you Dippers to belittle Daniel Igali as a candidate.

Do you guys have better ones in the mix? What Mr. Happy Planet? A score of union exec hacks? A score of re-tread former NDP MLAs who got badly beaten in 2001?

Name 3 high profile candidates that don't fit in the above categories.

If the BC Libs were belittle Daniel Igali as an NDP candidate, I was wager that you Dippers would be crying racism or elitism.

I don;t think that is the case, I just think that it is simply petty politics on the part of Daniel Igali critics.


Well Chelsea, your post certainly underscores the difference between socialist and non-socialist fundamentals. That’s where the NDP go wrong every time, they assume everyone is looking for a free ride. Personally, I don’t think it is society’s burden to bear the daycare costs of my kids. My wife and I planned our family around what we could afford, taking into consideration what we do for a living. It’s the same reason why my “new” car is not new; it’s paid for instead. In the real world you just can’t expect more money every three of four years just because you have paid that much in Union dues and now expect a “return” on your Union dues “investment” with a new “contract”. Let’s face it do Union members bother to see how much more money they would have if they invested those same monthly dues into a real financial markets instead of funding Jim Sinclair’s or George Heyman’s personal expense accounts? I think not. I believe firmly in “living within your means” this does not include government handouts if you think spending twice what you earn is some sort of birthright you deserve because you were born in BC.

Believe it or not Chelsea there are some of us who take pride in providing for our families without government handouts, and for those of us, we have no need for the NDP. No need at all.

no drunks like Gordo, bullys like Rick Thorpe and Tony Bullar,no scandals on the level of Garry Collins and his appointees, indeed little talent inspite of 76 fibbers in the legislature and a growing list of resignations.You must be the Newman from Seinfeld.

nice try sb,i,m not newman but must reply,,
so when is the last time you got shitfaced,,,
it,s a tough job, and i like real people, no phoneys need apply.

Kevin... complain bitterly??? no. Just pointing out fact vs New Era Fiction. In Canada, there are regions who don't have MSP premiums, who haven't engaged in the brutal cutbacks in services available under MSP, who also aren't as well off as the Liberals would have everyone believe we in BC are right now.

FACT: Prior to 2001, Chiropractic, Physiotherapy, massage therapy, and vision tests were covered under MSP. Granted, there was a deductible for these services, but there wasn't the full out charge there is now, now that these "alternative therapies" are outside the MSP system.

We keep hearing about this massive surplus achieved in part through this measure of eliminating coverage for these services, services that all segments of the population access, employed, unemployed, young and retired. That big a surplus tells me that the massive cutbacks that this government engaged in, through abdicative governance over good governance, went too far. And now, rather than using the majority of the so called surplus to paying down the debt, of which the Liberals contributed to at a greater and faster rate than the NDP and the old socreds ever did, they are going around dropping dimes, quarters and nickels here and there, trying to buy off the electorate, hoping that people will forgive and forget the pain that this government has inflicted upon people not on the BC Liberal donors list.

Now to some, that may sound like complaining, but to me, its a valid criticism of this government. But then again, to the fiberals, any type of criticism is considered complaining, because of their "our way is the only way" evangelical way of looking at things.

In as far as Daniel Igali, I don't know if the comments made about it being shameful to attack him, if they were directed my way, but if they were, I would challenge you to find anything in my post that attacks the man personally. All I said is that he's running under the Gordo Banner, and will have to be able to answer some tough questions in Surrey Newton. I don't doubt that he can do whatever he puts his mind to, high profile athlete / candidate or not. But its a long way from a wrestling mat to a political debate, particularly in the upcoming election.

And Kevin, just one last thing... when it comes to complaining vociferously about things, I would put your anti union rants up against my anti campbell/neo con arguments any day, and at the end of the day, its you thats been doing most of the complaining. I criticize, critique, and analyze. But you, more so than anyone, are so outright with your anti union stance, that its almost evangelical. Everyone of your posts points to Big Labour this or Big Labour that. Yet you've been strangely silent on the corporate monopolization of the Campbell Liberals, who's donors have benefitted handsomely from alot of the decisions made by this government. From fish farms and German Shipyards, to railways and multinational conglomerates with a somewhat checkered history (Accenture), all have benefitted quite handsomely from the reign of error of Gordo. How much so, well this most "open and accountable government in BC history" refuses to provide that kind of information under FOI, unless you want to pay $1200 for the privledge (as reported in the Tyee).

I think the biggest difference between us Kevin, is that you've got Gordo blinders on, its all everyone else's fault, and anyone who doesn't see things Gordo's way are doing nothing more than complaining and whining. You were strangely silent when Christy and Gary Collins pulled the rip cords and bailed out. How come?

Mr. Igali is certainly a welcome addition to the Liberal Party think-tank. He adds first-hand experience about what will certainly be a hot topic soon - polygamy ... if the Vancouver Slum's report is correct about him coming from a polygamous marriage.

But don't count on him getting elected in that riding. People who think his skin color makes him close enough to qualify will find out when the ballots are counted what 'racism' really means ... people from the Indian subcontinent consider those from Africa at the bottom of the caste system, and they will vote accordingly.

hey keghler WOW ,,,do you mind if i interruptwhat a passionate speech, but it was full of has been inuendo,
and the comment of [ it,s all everyone else,s fault] my sis use,s that all the time and yes,, she,s a crack head..
respect ,for now??

kegler needs to get a job like other ndp supporters out there who spend there whole day on publiceyeonline whining about how they miss the days when they could get by without having to work for a penny in their life.

no shit ,thats the truth that must be told,,
god bless him????

Hey Max and Nic... for your information, I do have a job. I even put in a tonne of overtime at it too. Not too mention all the community activity volunteer work I do. So just because someone supports the NDP and opposes the Gliberal agenda, doesn't mean that they're lazy, under or unemployed, or that bad off. And its hilarious on here, how some people are allowed to use profanities, while others posts are deleted for the mere suggestion, let alone the actual use of profanity. Rest assure Max, I pay my fair share and then some of taxes, so that Gordo and his ilk can piss away anything and everything to his corporate crony friends and supporters, sending legacies left to the province for the past 40 odd years down the road.

And Nic... of all the people who should talk about doing nothing but posting on publiceyeonline, maybe its you that needs to take a look at your lifestyle and find something else to do with your time. Might I suggest typing lessons, particularly with formatting and punctuation, and structure of writings, so that people don't view your posts and think that you can't even spend the time to properly articulate your thoughts so that people actually read them.

Not that I criticize personally, because I pretty much know whats coming when you post here. Isn't it funny that if you are in favour of the Campbell Liberal agenda that people like nic and others can feel free to post and post and post, but oppose the agenda, and you're supposed to just sit in the corner and take it. Or that you find that your blocked from posting "due to abuse, profanity..." or whatever the other reasons are for Sean's "purity filter." How come Sean that people like Max Power can make personal slights against me (not that Im whining about it...frankly, a person who wants to prove the axiom ASSUME makes an ASS of U and ME, is laughable) and yet the mere sniff of a dis or slam against Gordo and his merry band, results in my post not being posted???

I was away during the weekend, so I just wanted to catch up:

nic tells other people to "... thank gordo that u acctually have a job". Isn't it a bit of a perverse attitude for a self-proclaimed conservative anti-labour free enterpriser to advise people to thank the Government, ... any Government, for their livlihood? It seems to me that nic will have to go into the shop for some adjustments.

Bernard rightly observes that, "Frankly, there are very few people running for MLA in BC in the next election that have as much life experience as Daniel Igali has had. This is a man that has been the best in the world in a field - something very people in BC can say, let alone the people running for MLA". What Bernard dare not say is that it applies to Premier Campbell and every last single member of his Cabinet as much as anyone else! Bernard knows better than to say that, he knows that in Liberal country if you want to be in the sunlight, you had better be onside with the government. Bernard has the special kind of integrity that men like Martyn Brown, Andy Orr and Prem Vinning are looking for when they select people to do work for the BC Liberal Govt.

Newman asks of NDPers, "Do you guys have better ones in the mix? What Mr. Happy Planet? A score of union exec hacks? A score of re-tread former NDP MLAs who got badly beaten in 2001?" I haven't done an exact count, but twenty union officials and twenty former MLAs seems a bit high, ... but then Newman isn't good with actual numbers, ... only fake ones. BTW, if a union official is a "union exec hack", is a business executive a "corp exec hack"? How many of the BC Liberal candidates in the upcoming election are going to be incumbents? As incumbents, do they all qualify as "re-treads", or only those who were SC MLAs in the Bennett Vander Zalm years?

Kevin Larsen lectures all other parents who are overloaded paying $800 per month for child-care, on top of the highest real estate prices west of New York and north of San Francisco: "Personally, I don?t think it is society?s burden to bear the daycare costs of my kids. My wife and I planned our family around what we could afford, taking into consideration what we do for a living." I guess that means that Kevin and his better half are happy that Paul Martin and Ken Dryden weren't able to get agreement from the provinces this weekend on a national childcare plan, and that they are delighted that Ralph Klein's Alberta is holding out for a business model of childcare that will then trigger NAFTA clauses preventing future governments from ever returning this activity to the public and non-profit spheres.

Daniel was asked to run for the Libs for the same reason that Silken and her ex were both asked. The Libs have realized that style wins out over substance every time in politics in BC. At least Silken and the others had the common sense to realize that they were simply being used for their star power so that the Libs could be re-elected. I feel sorry for those who have spent their careers in political service trying to build a better community but who will never have a chance for political office because they don't wear the right clothes, look good on TV or sell a boxes of cereal.

It is no wonder then that these "stars" then quit (to spend more time with their families of course) after a year or two in office once they realize that it wasn't as much fun as they thought or a better offer comes along.

What bothers me most about the incessant attempts by the likes of nic the tick, db and to some extent john english,to derail all threads, is that they block oppurtunities for real discourse on the issues that affect us all.Regardless of where we sit within the political spectrum, the ground we hold in common is far greater than the walls that divide.Like it or not we all stand to benefit if genuine attempts are made to find solutions to the problems facing us all. In fact solutions might only be possible by setting aside our ego's and recognizing our common human frailties and banding together to create a society, that truly respects,honours and represents all members of its family.
As the coming election is approaching let us all try to use Sean's site to further develop,strengthen and grow our ideas as to what needs to be done,what can be done and how we all can contribute posistively to seeing our ideas through to fruition.British Columbia cannot afford the divisiveness and bitterness we have witnessed for the past fifteen years.It is only together that we can ever hope to achieve a democracy that genuinely reflects the aspirations,needs and values of all British Columbians.
Thank you and have a nice day!

Wow, MaxPower...

These dipper posts are really provin' ya right!

Kegler, good job contradicting yourself in the same paragraph...first suggesting that Nic spends too much time on publiceye, then, mentioning that he can't even spend the time to make sure his posts are gramatically perfect.

Just like all other dippers, you bend the story as it suits you.


Kevin Larsen: My parents also planned the family they could afford. Unfortunately, they believed a bunch of crap about a better future, and decided they could, on a double income, afford three children. For years it worked well, with piano lessons, sports, tournaments, nice gardens, healthy food, exchange studies, language classes, art and drama courses, CPR classes, driving lessons, acceptably fashionable clothes, trumpets, saxaphones, pianos, violins. It was difficult, but they could manage. They even managed to get two daughters through university. They had saved money for early retirement, and planned to leave their jobs at age 55, after working 40 and 30 years of their live. Fairly good life, right?. But this was before 2001, when one parent lost their job, anothers job was 're-accessed' as part-time instead of the full-time it had been for twenty years, and university tuition rose (for me) by 230% in three years. It happened to them; it could happen to you and your wife, too. No-one is protected from this kind of thing.

You make some valid points Chelsea, and certainly I can appreciate the planning of your parents, and the respectable efforts they have made in providing for your family. And your right, “no-one” is protected from the type of thing that happened to your folks. For some reason people in public sector unions seem to feel that they should somehow be immune from the realities of loosing a job, and a career. It happens. Think of what happened to all of the Placer Dome employees when the company left BC. Think of how many more people will loose their jobs if raw log exports are stopped like Carole James advocates.

Well Kevin,from a business perspective I believe the impetus of lowering our reliance on the exporting of raw lumber is that for every pair of hands that can work to transform a piece of lumber from its raw state to something of greater value will actually allow more wealth to be created in British Columbia, instead of lazily exported or greedily as may be the case to end users in other countries.By decreasing our dependance on the bulk, cheap sale of this valuable asset we can work towards cutting far fewer trees while creating greater real wealth for the citizens of this province.
The role of govt. is to ensure that the assets and commodities that belong in kind are used for the greatest common good, not simply the benefit of a few greedy businesses.The concept of value added initiatves to achieve greater economic and environmental benefits is not a new one.Just look at Ikea and its pivotal role of creating a vibrant and successful company that greatly contributes to the economic well being of Sweden.
Ikea is pivotal in allowing Sweden to add great value to its large yet inevitably diminishing forests,as well as creating jobs in a gamut of exciting posistions,such as designers,plastics manufacturers,executive in various businesses and they turned it into a world renowned retail success story.These are some of the possibilities that can be achieved if we start to recognize that true co-operation between business,govt.and workers will ultimately achieve real economic success that is rightfully experienced by all.

Truth Be Told, thanks for the Economy 101 spiel with nicely added European flavor. Do yourself a favor and get familiar with how the industry really works. Mills have evolved into highly specialized production operations that produce a specific product, often related to the local timber supply available within an acceptable, economically viable harvesting area.

So what happens when you have a particular timber supply, however your nearest Mill that specializes in possessing that type of wood happens to be located across the border? What if there is no longer a BC Mill that process that supply at all? What if it is a specialty timber market that does not even exist in BC ?

Raw law exportation is by no means a “lazy” industry; in fact you will find very industries in this Province that work harder. Now Carole James and the NDP say eliminating raw log exports and shutting this industry down will somehow help the economy? Go back to Ikea, maybe you will find Carole shopping there.

So what is your vested interest in not wanting to see the growth and revitalization of our lumber industries.Instead of simply throwing our hands up in the air and decrying the lack of skilled workers,specialized mills or general ability of British Columbia workers, why not try to actively work towards creating an environment where we are capable of supplying good jobs to our residents.Why are you so hateful at the prospect of BC enjoying true economic freedom and success.Is it not in the best interest of business to have a variety of economic interests to pursue,do we not want to see as many jobs in BC created,particulary as an end result in increased value added usage.Who said anything about shutting off completely the US's supply of our raw lumber,although it would serve them right,it would also be economic suicide.At the same time we have to grow,expand and seek out new economic horizon's.For every container being shipped here from China we should be searching for ways to make sure they go home full with BC manufactured exports.Maybe not today but it sure makes sense to continue to invest in BC and not simply continue to take the easy way out.Instead of simply deriding my ideas why not work together to ensure that BC continues to grow economically,not just for the wealthiest few but for the province as a whole.We owe it to ourselves and we owe it to our children to start acting like adults and show some real leadership on the issues that matter most.

To me, "outsourcing" or "overseas-ing" of manufacturing jobs, is utterly contradictory, and an example of how these practices ultimately benefit no one, as the markets for these goods, services etc, are the very ones who these corporations and conglomerates are now abandoning. But it goes to philosophy. Some companies and corporations believe in nothing more than maximizing profit by any means necessary. If it means closing down operations and putting entire communities out of work... so be it.

Problem is, if you expand on that theory, and you outsource all the jobs to cheap markets like China and India (though India's costs are starting to escalate rapidly), they'll be no one in your major markets to buy your goods, at the prices you've charged previously when based in Canada or the States or where ever. The end result becomes basically cannibalization. There's 2 ways of going about Free Trade. There's the EU model, and the NAFTA model. The EU model seeks to have member countries compete on a level playing field, while NAFTA seeks to continue to tip the balance to the corporations and their never ending pursuit of cheap labour.

In BC, governments of all stripes, have been guilty of not seeking out other markets for our goods, other than the US. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say to Bush, "that's fine, we'll not sell you the (insert resource here) [lumber, oil, natural gas etc] you need for your houses, or economic consumption, we'll sell it to these guys who aren't dicking us around."

Much like expanded gambling to the BC Liberals, governmental policy when it comes to trade is narrow minded and addicted to selling to the US, and the US alone.

PS: To the likes of Max Power and Nic, and BH aka Newman...

I have to go to work now. As for what I said about Nic, its simple, Quality over Quantity. Nic posts here more than I do, yet I'm the one who's told to "get a job." I no doubt am an avid participant on this site, as are others from both sides of the spectrum. Do I sit here all day and post and post and post... no. I come on once a day, maybe twice on the weekends, and read. And if something piques my curiousity, I'll post. Or respond to some of the BS that's put out there by the likes of BH, Nic, and Max Power.

That's hardly hypocritical. It's ok for the Right to be snide, sarcastic, and belittling around this site, but if you're centre left, you're supposed to sit here and take it??? I don't think so.

And BH aka Newman... you don't have to sign everyone of your posts, as its already signed for you. Then again, maybe deep down, you're just a double dipper. lol.

kegler, aka the reverend kegler

Truthbetold: Your theories are nice in your ideological dream world. I do have one question for you. Do you have any experience running a company in the wood manufacturing, value added sector? By your posts obviously not. It sounds good on paper but nearly impossible to do in reality. When you need to compete with your dream companies like Ikea, manufacturing in Canada is simply no longer an option. Where do you think Ikea manufacturers their products?

Kegler you do make some good points in a ideological sort of way, but if you’re a business and you don’t make profits you go out of business. If you offer comparable products for 4 times the price people don’t shop in your store. You may not mind paying 4 times more for your bookshelf, that’s fine, but you would be the anomaly. Ideological theories are great but get you now where in the real world.

A good comparism to the wood products industry may be the recent decision by Levi Strauss to close all North American manufacturing facilities, to have their famous products produced in the Third world, as wages ,etc are much cheaper. I just checked the new Sears catalogue, and the price of Levis has NOT gone down to reflect the lower wage.
The value-added wood industry has a lot of jobs to offer BC`ers, and we need a government that will make the wood available to benefit our own citizens. Those are OUR jobs being shipped out of the country. The NDP also allowed this practise, but not to the extent that is happenning now. Time for a change.

What is with this pessimistic view of the "real" world.There are many world views vying for dominance and not always the best system rises to the top.With modern manufacturing techniques and the speed of tecnological advancements BC is poised to be a leader in many areas that just 10 years ago would have never been profitable.I have friends who own large Plastics companies, my father in-law owns a furniture company in Duncan,and I own a contracting business.From working closely with many of the indusries poised to grow in BC I can recognize that there are many areas that we can not only be competitors,but leaders.For years now my father in-law has been unable to expand his business to its full potential due to a constant shortage of quality lumber, for domestic use, this has created instability and difficulty in maintaing a steady quota,as the supply he is capable is inconsistent and does not allow him to grow as the market dictates.This is a problem that has existed with the NDP and persisted with the libs.My main point is that we must begin to think out of the box and create an emphasis that truly allows BC to prosper.Obviously this is hard work and the systems may not be in place,but this is no reason to simply throw up our hands, give up and sell out BC innovation.The liberal govt. has insulted businesses and the business class with their incompetent attempts to sell the coquihalla,BC Rail,BC Hydro and this vain ideological privatization of our private information networks,changes which admittedly will not save us money but simply divests the govt. of responsibility.These are some of the disastrous and scandalous results of an ideological vision with absolutely no basis in serving our society as a whole.I for one am looking forward to May 17th with optimism and clarity.

Although you have valid points once again they are based largely on ideological views and not reality. Your not wrong for thinking big, but you have to ask yourself is this the best way of doing things. Just because we do have the natural resources does that mean we have to be best in adding value, the key world is value, to those resources? In a perfect world maybe, but we do not live in utopia.

At my place of employment the overhead to run our manufacturing has skyrocketed in recent years. When you carry millions in inventory and manufacture all within a confined space the insurance rates become astronomical. This is just one area where we have become uncompetitive. The cost of employing people in our country is also extremely high. In order to save the jobs of many of the employees, ie save the business, most of the wood manufacturing has to be done overseas. If it was our choice, with no outside factors, we would like to keep as much manufacturing in BC as possible, but it's just not possible in a global economy. BC can be leaders in many industries but manual labor intensive industries is not one of them.

We can insulate ourselves from the rest of the world or we can become innovators in other non traditional areas. The only way to stop this phenomenon is to cut off trade from BC to the rest of the world. Doing that would hurt many more people than it would benefit.

I can't believe, that after the strong-arm tactics from NDP party HQ in Burnaby Willingdon, that somebody hasn't pointed out the blatant hypocracy in the prevalent self-rightous attitude of the No Democractic Party. Case in point, the following excerpt from an earlier post on this thread:

"As far as candidates, at least the NDP have nomination meetings."
Posted by kathy at February 12, 2005 09:52 PM

Saying that the NDP are democratic at the riding level is like saying the wrestling in the WWE is real. Hmmm.... speaking of which, I do think Igali will need other career options after May 17....

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