A bankable candidate?

Former Toronto Dominion Securities Inc. chief economist and banking world celebrity Paul Summerville wants to run for the provincial New Democrats, Public Eye has learned. Mr. Summerville, who most recently worked as the managing director and regional head Asia-Pacific for Toronto Dominion Securities, could give party leader Carole James a powerful counter to accusations she has been bought and is controlled by big labour. But so far, according to insiders, the New Democrats haven't exactly rolled out the red-carpet for him.

To win a nomination, Mr. Summerville (who lives in Victoria) will need to run uncontested. After all, the New Democrat rank and file has a bad history of voting against outsiders just because they're outsiders, preferring candidates to have some kind of genetic connection to party founder Tommy Douglas.

Ridings under consideration for Mr. Summerville include Malahat-Juan de Fuca, Oak Bay-Gordon Head and Saanich South. But each of those ridings already has a number of declared or almost-declared nomination candidates, some with a high-profile. And, according to the rumour mill, although party leaders claim to be enthusiastic about having a running dog capitalist on their campaign team, none of those candidates has been asked to step aside for Mr. Summerville. That would be consistent with Ms. James' current Prime Directive (i.e. non-interference) attitude toward local nomination battles.

44 Comments

The NDP would be insane not to move heaven and earth to get a candidate like this. And if candidates are unwilling to stand aside, its because of ego and not any sense of what would be best for the party.

The good ol' NDP better understand that this is going to be one of those little litmus tests that allow the public to see whether or not they are the same or different.

I'm a long-time party member and would end that membership if the NDP does not do everything in its power to give this man the nomination of his choice. This is the biggest test for the NDP to date--are they ready to be a credible government or are they intent on being opposition forever.

Hmm, Victoria eh?

Well Oak Bay would be great but that is spoken for, Victoria City is spoken for, Saanich South would probably be the best fit.... if the party screws this up then they have no chance of forming government

I'm not sure... Maybe the NDP is going to let the constituency association he decides to run in decide whether or not he should be their candidate. That's called a nomination meeting, and that's how the party chooses candidates- it lets the members vote.

Oddly democratic- if the people think he's got good values and is a respectable person, he might be able to represent them.

Why should the NDP want this guy ? What would he know about rank and file labor issues ? Would he know what it is like to toil in the trenches of some hospital for $ 18 and hour ? Half the problems with Carole James is that she does not represent core NDP values.

Besides can any economist sincerely criticize what the Libs have done ? I think not.

The next quesiton is, why would this guy want the job ? Something smells about this one. Big Fish in the litle pond maybe ?

Why couldn`t any economist sincerely criticize what the Liberals have done? Lying is something that anyone can criticize.

Hmmm.. Kevin Larson with a ? mark on the end. I laugh heartily at people like you. Rather than aspire to make more money, and do the jobs that pay that kind of money, you would rather ridicule and demean someone who makes a good living, out of some petty jealousy that you don't have the stones to stand up and demand better.

I've been amazed that all these people come out of the woodwork all the time, criticizing what people make for a living, both in the public and private sector. And when you happen to belong to a union, as I do, within the private sector, as I do, you get bashed in your industry, because people before you stood up and fought for decent wages and benefits, and other things that ignorant sychophants such as Kevin Larson with a ? mark on the end of their names, take for granted.

The BC Fiberals have had a heyday picking fights with labour throughout their mandate. Be it the war on HEU, the mass cutbacks in the public sector, privatization, changes to workers compensation, and the introduction of child labour to the market, or now stooping to a newer low and offshoring jobs to Germany, it's the people who work in this province, who drive the economy.

And slowly but surely, the steps the Fiberals have taken have been strangulating families everywhere.

As for the thread of this convo, hell if the NDP can find a bank economist interested in running for them, they should do everything in their power to get them. But then again, I don't think decisions are made at various levels of the NDP by whats said on this site.

"Why couldn`t any economist sincerely criticize what the Liberals have done? Lying is something that anyone can criticize." - C.Parkhurst

Simple answer, anyone who truly understands finance can appreciate that the Libs have cleaned up the mess left behind by the NDP. Remember those NDP contributions to our economy like "fudget budgets" ? Economists tend to remember the 17 Billion dollars added to the Provincial Debt load.

"hell if the NDP can find a bank economist interested in running for them, they should do everything in their power to get them" - kegler

This is one point you and I can agree on kegler, when it comes to finance the NDP need all the help they can get.

How about the 9 million or so pissed down the drain with the Coquihalla affair? How about the BC Rail Roberts Bank? How about the Doug Walls affair? Then let`s remember all the lying. No, we won`t rip up collective agreements, no, we won`t sell BC Rail.
Then to add to this is the statement by the Auditor General of BC that 1.5 Billion$ was the balance when the NDP left. No, the NDP wasn`t perfect, but compared to this gang of liars led by the drunken Gordo, they look not too bad.

Hey Parhurst,

I agree with everything you have stated, but so far you are still talking in the millions...Loooong way to go from the $ 17 Billion contribution courtesy of the NDP.

P.S. $ 9 million flushed on that stupid Coquihalla idea is a far cry from the $ 450 Million Fast ferry fiasco.

Paul Summerville appears to be an exceptional candidate.

That aside, C. Parkhurst refers to the $1.5 billion surplus during the previous administration.

One must remember that this amount was largely due to the windfall profits that BC Hydro generated through the energy crisis experienced by California.

Substantial funds were then paid by BC Hydro to the BC gov't as a dividend, which was applied to general revenue.

A normal business practice, which has no bearing on the gov't, whatever the political persuasion.

Have you read today's headline in the business section of the Vancouver Sun entitled "Hydro back on California hook"?

Apparently BC Hydro could be on the hook for more than $750 million in refund payments to California.

A couple of years ago, the BC Finacne Ministry suggested that the liability could be as much as $1.3 billion.

Let's hope that any repayment does not come to pass.

Paul Summerville appears to be an exceptional candidate.

That aside, C. Parkhurst refers to the $1.5 billion surplus during the previous administration.

One must remember that this amount was largely due to the windfall profits that BC Hydro generated through the energy crisis experienced by California.

Substantial funds were then paid by BC Hydro to the BC gov't as a dividend, which was applied to general revenue.

A normal business practice, which has no bearing on the gov't, whatever the political persuasion.

Have you read today's headline in the business section of the Vancouver Sun entitled "Hydro back on California hook"?

Apparently BC Hydro could be on the hook for more than $750 million in refund payments to California.

A couple of years ago, the BC Finacne Ministry suggested that the liability could be as much as $1.3 billion.

Let's hope that any repayment does not come to pass.

Would be interested to know if anyone has anything to add re: Mr. Summerville's motivation.

I find that the quality to people willing to run for the NDP has dramatically improved since the leadership race when the party could not find a single serious candidate to be leader.

The same shortage of serious talent could be said of the fed election when more NDP stars ran for the Liberals than the NDP.

It is unfair to dis all the former MLAs looking at running again. They have skills that most people do not have - they been in the house, they understand the governing process in BC, they know where to look for the skeletons. Am I a fan of Adrian Dix? No, but he will make a good MLA.

But the NDP is either deliberately or without thought running to be the opposition and not the government. The NDP is campaigning to secure the 1/3 of the population that is NDP friendly. The NDP is not trying appeal to the centre.

Yeah, if only the quality of people willing to run for the NDP had improved BEFORE the Leadership Convention. Carole has been a complete disaster on fiscal issues, and polls seem to indicate an inordinately high disapproval rating, considering that few people actually know who she is. Paul Summerville and other strong candidates are about the only hope that this party has of forming government. Summerville can at least help counter some of the criticism that the NDP is a fiscal basket case.

If the current NDP 'campaign' (which hasn't started yet) is geared toward traditional NDP support, then why are so many NDPers pissed off? Why do some many of us think that they've gone to far toward the centre (especially in a province that shows no proof that a centrist party has a hope in hell)?

Before, it was always thought that the stronger our left-wing views, when we finally compromised to the point that something could happen, at least the leftheadedness of the action would be visible.

A lot of NDP supporters think whoever is telling Carole what to say has a very different agenda than the agenda of the mainstream NDP.

As to whether or not Sommerville is a strong candidate, that remains to be seen. After all, what are his policies, his views? All I know of him is that he is a highly educated and respected man, who has worked as an economist. Don't forget, Marx was a highly respected economist as well. The field doesn't mean that one is necessarily a conservative person, nor that the person is very good at coming up with policies that work (look at the policies of the BoC).

The story suggests that he would have to run uncontested because NDPers prefer long-time members over newbies, which is not true at all. Nils Jensen, after all, almost won the leadership at our convention in November, and he'd barely been a member long enough to run.

Dear Kevin, It may be a good idea for you to take a math course.The MSP premiuns which were jacked up account for a substantial amount of the budget surplus, as well as the incredible good fortune of the oil and gas revenues.Other wise you and your liberal folks would really be up the creek. I think you should also look up the contribution to the debt load that the Liberals have done, as well as ad up all the wastage in communication networks, money to sell the fast ferries, the debacle in Surrey with the Hi Tech college and real estate, health care management expenditures and so on and so forth. But of course you will always drag out the usual suspects, i.e. fast ferries, bingo gate that Canwest has so wiell trained you in. Hell , you probably believe the propaganda in todays Sun which mysteriously contradicts the Province's assertion that housing sales are up 15% this September, lies about average worker wages and employment figures and many other things. It is hard to keep your lies and propaganda straight. Have you heard about the "Big lie technique" which they taught you in highschool. Yes , Ken I know that we are breaking housing starts and sales, but the market is markedly cooling off, including the condo market. As well you can thank low interest rates and the rest of Canada and our great weather and the Orient. Hey, but we now have squeegie legislation. Wow! Meanwhile low income families are also getting a helping hand from your heroes with the brunt of the cuts to most social programs. But then the Fraser Institute contends that welfare casues marriage breakups. Let's look up the marriage statisitics after the welfare cuts and see how society has really improved under your beloved Liberals.

wow hot topic ,,sean,,

first of all, if anyone is still reading,
i,m a fiscal conserv,,,,,
i will take care of anyone in need,whenever however,,
but when i get up in the morning, no form of gov,t ties my shoes.

if this province goes back too the same old drag,
oppurtunity,s will be lost for young people to
make a future for themselves.

as for KEGLER,PER SEE, C .PARKHURST,,

you just don,t see the BIG PICTURE.

i,m nic cheeers.

by the way.

socialism is everyone equal right...

i can handle the tip.
nic.

heh kegler.,,
some people make more money than others.
as my phshc said,,LEARN HOW TOO LIVE WIRH IT,,
but now i,m rich,unhealthy,misserable,but i live in the best place on earth, right,.

touche ,nic

It`s nice to see the neocon`s worked up. The big picture is as it`s always been. Economics is much more than getting the cheapest deal. It actually involves everthing including people, and that nic, is the part that your friend Gordon Liar doesn`t get. Whatever the name of a political party is, doesn`t matter. There are a lot of people in BC that DON`T want the Accentures, Sodexho`s, CN, owning what we have in the past. And no, we don`t like liars no matter what party they are in.

I'm always amused at how political parties get a bit dizzy anytime they're presented with the possibility of recruiting a former "chief economist" of a bank or brokerage firm. They've been less than stellar politicians. Doug Peters didn't do much as the junior Liberal minister of finance. He didn't consult with any consumer groups when he rewrote financial-services legislation. John McCallum was a dud as defence minister, which is one reason he got demoted. Ralph Sultan, perhaps the best of the bunch, still toils on the backbenches.

@ charlie--

No disagreement with your analysis about what happens to many of these folks post-election, but in this case isn't the issue about what somebody like Summerville could do for the NDP re:legitimizing the NewPragmatism/ThirdWay strategy prior to the election?

"Dear Kevin, It may be a good idea for you to take a math course.The MSP premiuns which were jacked up account for a substantial amount of the budget surplus" - SB

Give your head a shake SB ! You can take all the MSP Premiums, ADD all the PST Collected, AND add all the personal income tax colleced by the Province and guess what ! - You still would not meet the annual Health Care Budget. The fact is raising the health care premiums was a token gesture to reflect the sky rocketing costs required to keep all those hard done by health "professionals" employed. I use the term "professional" lightly as no real professional would engage in illegal strike acitvity and cause thousand of surgeries to be cancelled, more so when said "professional" is already the highest paid in Canada for that profession.

By the way, I am glad you mentioned the debt - it seems the NDP is afraid to. Why ? Because if you compared the performance of the Libs to the dismal 17 billion courtesy of the NDP you are once again reminded of how the NDP destroyed our Province, and how the Libs have managed to clean up the NDP created mess.

by the way,, c. parkhurst,,
gordon is no friend of mine. but as a professional with a degree in common sense,i am a socialist, i want the best for everyone,but
no freeloaders o.k..

nic the dogfucker,, vic.

Kevin Larsen:

All I know is that while the Liberals have 'balanced' the provinces budget, my debtload has more than tripled because so has my tuition...

"All I know is that while the Liberals have 'balanced' the provinces budget, my debtload has more than tripled because so has my tuition..."

Once again, you can thank the NDP for "freezing" (meaning "politicizing") tution rates so that Univerities had NO CASH while the NDP could buy the sutdent vote.

Nothing in life is free. Here is a sobering fact..While the NDP will boast that the Libs have posted the largest tution rate increases, they of course will not tell you the entire story. For example if you check your numbers against what you are paying to get your education in BC, guess what ?

Alberta costs more
Sask. costs more
Manitoba costs more.
Quebec depending on the non-resident status MIGHT be cheaper.

So really B.C. is once again, the best place to live, AND WORK - something the NDP needs to appreciate more. Sometimes I ALMOST think those ads are justified....

Kevin:

You talk about all the debt the NDP racked up in 10 years. What about the back to back record budget deficits the so called business like government of the BC Fiberals racked up? I've searched through the new error err era and didn't find any mention of the selling off or privatization of BC Rail, BC Ferries, parts of BC Hydro, and because Mr. Geer saw that ICBC served the public interest, rather than privatizing auto insurance, didn't have him Fired, costing the people of this province hundreds of thousands of dollars in severances and payouts.

This came from the government who absolutely HOWLED in opposition whenever the government paid out a huge severance package. They said "we won't do anything like that." They do. Campbell HOWLED about underfunding of the Ministry of Children and Families. What did he do when he got into power... continually cut the budget on the ministry. Campbell screamed for Clark's head when it was alleged he was involved in some wrongdoing over a roofdeck. When Campbell got caught doing the Maui Wowie blammered, and was convicted of drunk driving... did he do as he asked and did to others???? Hell No.

Gary Collins sneered at the balanced budgets of the NDP referring to windfalls in energy and natural gas royalties. Yet, there's the flight instructor struting like a peacock, because his so called balanced budget includes guess what??? Energy and Oil and Gas Windfalls. And that balanced budget came on the heels of 2 back to back record deficits. Fact is this, the Campbell government is NOT responsible for the increase in commodity prices, historically low interest rates, or the soaring Canadian Dollar. Yet to listen to Campbell and Collins self congratulate themselves, you would think it was them and them alone.

The continuing hypocrisy and arrogance of the neo cons, and the deafening silence within the CanWorst Gliberal media chain on the fact that CN has started to renege on parts of the BC Rail deal, such as cutting service to Prince George from 3 trains to 1, a 66% drop in service isn't surprising. But the sound bite of the week comes from Mr. SafeStreets himself, Lorne Mayencourt.

When referring to squeegie kids, he said that "if they want to duck in between cars, they should get a job at an A & W drive in."

I guess Mr. Mayencourt doesn't get out too much, as the last A & W drive in in the lower mainland closed down back in the late 80s. Another example of an MLA who's out of touch with whats going on. Maybe when Mr. Mayencourt is looking for work after the 2005 election, perhaps he should take some time to walk around the neighbourhood and acquaint himself with something called the 21st century.

Kevin: Actually, the last tuition hike saw BC average tuitions rise higher than the national average, and some institutions have seen more than a doubling of tuition since the Liberals came in, far more than the accumulative inflation of the freezed period. You need to look at the statistics coming out of a source other than the provincial government to see that, though.
And the tuition freeze has nothing to do with it. The NDP chose to properly fund advanced education, even at a time when the federal government was slashing the transfer payments; that doesn't show political manouvering to gain votes. That shows political will to ensure access. The provincial Liberals have not simply removed the tuition freeze, they have allowed the holes in a schools budget to be filled by tuition rather than properly funding education. This means that most of that gorgeous tax cut Campbell gave 'the average citizen' is more than covered when that person tries to put their kid through school.
Beyond that, its so hypocritical for those who were educated in the 60s, 70s, and 80s to say that students whine today. When Paul Martin attended university, he paid $400 for a full-course load. A student with the same course load, at the same school now pays $4000! And, thats more than just inflation. Before the 1990s, governments funded nearly 83% of post-secondary education. Now? 71%! So, students today aren't whining when they say they have it harder then their parents.
It was the NDP who tried to keep costs off the backs of students, which kept them from going desperately into debt. When these students graduated, many of them hit the ground running, buying vehicles, affording mortgages, lots of available money that wasn't tied up in paying interest to private banks for student loans. Nowadays, students graduate and will spend years paying money to banks as opposed to putting back into the local economy. I suppose, if your a Liberal, crippling the economic power of the educated youth is good fiscal policy- but if you actually paid attention in Econ 101, its a really stupid idea.

First to kegler...

No matter how you slice it, nothing can compare to the pathetic 17 Billion debt load as added by the NDP. While you reference the record deficits as we all know this was a result of dramatic tax cuts enacted by the Lib's once getting elected. You might recall this was a major component of the Premier promised New Era. One that he delivered on, despite the 4 billion dollar structural deficit left by the NDP. The fact that he actually delivered on the tax cuts and did not use the NDP hidden structural deficit as an excuse seems oddly forgotten by the NDP.

B.C. Rail is a lease agreement not a sale, althought I know most in the NDP have no clue as to the difference.

B.C. Ferries - When People in B.C. start mailing in personal cheques to the provincial government to support Union shipbilders and subsidize the 130 Million extra to "build" this industry in B.C. I will start to think that the B.C. Ferry Corp. was in error. Did you know that these German built boats come with a money back guarantee ? Do you think we can get our $ 450 Million back from the Unions for those fast ferries ?

ICBC and Nick Greer - Mr.Greer was doing the job he was hired to do, and that did NOT inlcude making life easier for competing private insurance interests. To me, the Libs blew this one.

You suggestion that the provincial economy fixed itself is flawed - Were this the case during the 1990's B.C. should have been booming like everywhere else in North America, instead of being driven into the ground by a completely inept NDP Government. Have you forgotten "fudget budgets" ? Conversly, every other Province in Canada has the same commodity markets as B.C. does - Yet only Alberta and B.C. have managed to turn these same economic conditions into economic success. Something the NDP seems to stupidly continue to deny.

As for Maynecourt - where do we start ? Personally I think he still eats at that A&W Drive In.

Now to John,

If you read my comments carefully you would see that I already conceeded that B.C. tuition rate increases are higher than the national average. it's a nice stat. that allows the NDP to play the "mean spirited" game. However, you, much like the NDP never tell the whole story. Can you get a cheaper University education in Alberta ? No. Saskatchewan ? No. Manitoba ? No. You might get lucky in Quebec, although you might get charged a non-resident premium. So really, B.C. has brought tuition rates much closer to what every other student in Western Canada pays - Of course fairness is never part of the NDP mantra is it ? After all, education, much like everything else, should be subsidized heavily so the people who actually benefit do not have to pay a fair share like they do everywhere else in Western Canada.

I am amazed that you even attmept to use "inflation" as an argument with the rate increases. Did the NDP only raise tuition in line with inflation ? No, they totally froze the rates and ignored the rising costs being faced by admin. So yes, catching up to fair tutuion rates after a freeze will have higher percentage rate increases. This my firend, is econ. 101.

And yes, I think some students do whine today. To get a cheaper education one would have to go as far East as Quebec. Ask students in Alberta, Sask. or Manitoba if they think B.C. students are hard done by.

Why do some in society feel it is unfair to have to pay for something that they actually benefit from directly ?

I wonder why the New Era documents have been removed from the BC Fiberal website.Also, haven`t the BC Fiberals increased the deficit. Doesn`t that actually increase the debt? I`ll bet good money that the German workers are all union members. How about the freedom of information re: BC Ferries. Open and accountable? Hardly. Liars? YES.

Another point. Some in society feel it is unfair to have to pay for something that they actually benefit from directly when they see their government give big taxcuts to those that don`t deserve them. As far as mean spirited goes, the BC Liars are definitely the winners.

Hey Parkhurst,

"I wonder why the New Era documents have been removed from the BC Fiberal website" - Parhurst

Your question is a good one - I wonder if the Lib's will answer to it ?

Have the Libs added to the debt ? Absolutely, but when compared to what the NDP did - not even close, not even in the same league. Not to mention that the Libs have not only balanced the budget, but generated a surplus in just four years. Remember "fudget budget" in year 8 from the NDP - still a dismal failure.

And my compliments to you on your Ferries question, it is the question that we in British Columbia should all be asking. I think you are right in that the German shipbuilders are all Union, and being that Germany is far from being a third world country - One should be wondering why those Germans can build these boats for 130 Million dollars less money, on time, and with a money back guarantee. Perhaps our local Union shipbuilders should spend more time trying to compete rather than expecting BC taxpayers to subsidize them because they cannot.

And I also would like to thank you for conceeding what most of us in the right have always suspected about those in the left; Indeed as you stated so well "Some in society feel it is unfair to have to pay for something that they actually benefit from directly when they see their government give big taxcuts to those that don`t deserve them" In other words, I should not have to pay my fair share for what I benefit from because I think anyone with more money or more success should have to instead. Let's penalize those who have managed to pay MORE than a fair share so someone else does not have to. Small wonder we are such a politically polarized Province.

I`m not conceding anything. The BC Fiberals stated that they would lower taxes for low and moderate income earners in the "New Era" document, then promptly handed out "Christmas in July" to high and corporate taxpayers, as well as an increase in sales tax and a number of user fees, increases in licences etc. Again it boils down to an ability to lie. I remember a fellow by the name of "Stockell" or something like that who was suing the NDP for not telling the truth in regards to the "Fudgit Budget". I wonder where he is now? He could have a heyday in regards to truth with this bunch. Another large issue that needs to be dealt with as well, is the campaign donations to political parties. No more donations from unions or corporations.
And finally, in regards to unions being more competitive. It usually works like this- it seems to mean reducing wages for the workers, ie having laundry shipped to Calgary from Chilliwack, where the minimum wage is quite low, or laying off the individuals that might have been doing the job, bringing in some multinational of qhestionable ethics, and giving them a profit margin instead. This kind of BS does nothing for our local economies. Economics, as I have stated before , has to include people as well. Government cannot simply run like a business with only the bottom line as the driving force. In regards to the ferries being offshored, a lot more than the union members are being screwed by Campbell. A lot of wholesalers, suppliers will not be getting a share of the pie as well, and we, the taxpayers, will be footing the bill for the EI cheques for the workers that won`t be working.

"I`m not conceding anything" – C.Parhurst

Of course your not conceding anything; NDP'ers never do. "Therein" lies your downfall. I have no problems conceding where mistakes have been made, and will continue to. I am not so naive as to suggest everything that the "Libs" have done is golden. However until the NDP concedes that they royally screwed up in the 1990's and more importantly, lays out a plan that suggests that;

a) They recognize and will learn from previous mistakes made.

AND

b) They have a plan to provide a better government
that includes more than simply blasting Campbell from how he cleaned up the NDP created mess.

I submit people will continue to ignore the NDP in B.C..

The reality is, I believe today that British Columbia IS an amazing place to live. Not only is it beautiful, it is a place you can make a living and raise a family. I believe there are opportunities today that did not exist during the NDP, and Stats Can agrees. I am proud that our province has a working surplus, that we lead the Nation in job growth, and that we will soon again contribute to the confederation that is Canada – being a “Have” Province, something that NDP took away from us with their misamangement. I am proud to be a British Columbian, a Canadian, and most of all, I will be proud to vote for Premier Campbell. This province is booming right now, and I am pleased to vote for someone wit the courage to make the tough decisions, over the easy ones. After all, it is those easy one's that added 17 Billion dollars onto the backs of my family. Quite frankly Parkhurst, until the NDP concedes what they did to B.C. I will continue to support those who work hard and believe firmly in paying their fair share as our Province moves forward, instead of backwards, the only direction the NDP knows.

Regards.

Kevin:
"B.C. Rail is a lease agreement not a sale, althought I know most in the NDP have no clue as to the difference."

Try lend lease or lease to own agreement. Any lease that extends past the mandate of a government should be illegal. Instead, we're left with an agreement that effectively handcuffs future generations once we're all dust in the wind. A 990 year lease agreement is not a lease agreement. You say that the NDP doesn't understand what a lease agreement is. Well in this instance, how about a Right Wing commentator such as Rafe Mair and that lefty pinko himself, Bill VanderZalm. Even the Canworst Gliberal 3 stooges have given up calling it a lease arrangement with CN. But that's ok. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and sh#ts like a duck... guess what you've got.... A duck. And in this instance, that's exactly what we've got... a rotten smelly deal that if it were in the best interests of british columbians, would not Gordo and the Boys have left the details of the sale.. sorry.. long term lease open and accessible under FOI?

Yet all anyone can see in the deal is a whole lot of black marked pages, including in the table of contents.


As for BC Ferries and the 3 boats in Germany, guess what, you've already cut the cheque my friend. Because I'd bet there's a deal with the feds to forgive the 25% import duty on those vessels. I can smell it from here. And I wonder what that import duty would amount to. On a $500 million dollar deal, it works out to $125 million. And once again, lefty pinko people like Bill Vanderzalm, and the CanWorst 3 stooges have come out and said why didn't Washington have a chance to finish out the bidding process. Because the dirty deal was done.

Ironic that Emerson was a former chairman of the board of BC Ferries, and now sits as Minister of Industry. And when asked in the house this week about the export of canadian jobs, and the importation of foreign built vessels, hemmed and hawwed and evaded answering the question.

So the money we so called saved in building these tubs in Germany is lost on our tax base in a number of ways. Through the lost of economic activity by the 2000 jobs that would have been created, by the fact that the parts would have come from a similar setup that the Germans are employing (various parts of the boat being built in different places and assembled) thus generating activity in different regions, similar to the Spirit Class boats.

And now the fact that the Federal Gliberals are turning a blind eye to a vast amount of money duly owed to the people of Canada.

Just to placate Yankee Doodle Hahn, and those band of misfits on the SS Gordon Campbell. BC Taxpayers money being used to subsidize German jobs. I didn't know that the Germans needed more money. But as you can see from other reports on this site, many of the Campbell-ites are jumping off and not running again. Thank goodness the Liberals have decided to stick with Premier Drunkeness to the bitter end. Otherwise it wouldn't be much fun.

Larsen- if you are willing to support a drunken liar such as Gordon Campbell, you have a serious character flaw.Courage my ass, the guy hasn`t any.

To Kegler,

Sadly sir, you have been victimized by the Ferry disinformation campaign as presented from the NDP/Unionists.

For starters I used the savings figure of 130 million with the assumption that the Feds would not waive the importation fees. If you are correct and Emerson does support saving taxpayers in B.C. even more money (something the NDP of course opposes only because it does not benefit their Union friends) the saving could be upwards of 180 million.

Likewise, – if in fact you did your research you would discover that yet another one of the benefits of this deal is the principal balance is due on delivery – this alone amounts to considerable savings on interest. Let’s not also forget the delivered on time, performance based money back guarantee, Something that was NOT contained in the 900 page tender that was submitted by the American owned Washington Marine Group. Were you also aware that one component of the Washington bid called for the hulls to be built in China? Do you know where the Washington Marine Group parent company Seaspan had their last container ship built? Try Korea. So with all of tax dollars going into corporate America (Washington Marine Group), the only real benefit would be to the Union Guys who would make 70+ Grand a year for a few years to build some ships. Is that worth between 130-180 Million to you? Are you willing to write a cheque to pay for it? And don’t use the tax argument – Spending taxpayer’s dollars to get a smaller amount back and leaving a big chunk in corporate America does not work here.

Also the German Yard does build all of the Ferries on site – this will be something like hull # 17 – Not to mention that this yard does the job with fewer than 700 employees. I stand by my earlier questions as poised to Parhurst, “the question that we in British Columbia should all be asking is why those Germans can build these boats for 130 Million dollars less money, on time, and with a money back guarantee. Perhaps our local Union shipbuilders should spend more time trying to compete rather than expecting BC taxpayers to subsidize them because they cannot.”

Principally the ability to compete is paramount, and ultimately will be the only way that the shipbuilders will survive. Subsidizing an uncompetitive industry with protectionist policies is a complete waste of tax-payer dollars and will ensure the industry dies a far quicker death of it cannot compete on it’s own merits. Business 101 my friend, and I am truly hopeful that the B.C. shipbuilding industry can produce some competitive bids and secure some of the smaller contracts down the road. An industry MUST be competitive if it is to survive.

Dear Mr.Kevin, As I said before the MSP premiums account for close to half of the budget surplus that the Liberals have accrued.This is a tax my friend and a hypocritical one at that. Yes, close to half of the surplus. An unnecessary money grab.Your heroes are heroes to those baby boomers who were lucky enough to see their houses values go through the roof and can now afford their SUVs and are less affected by the dishonesty and low handedeness of your boys in Victoria.However if you are having to put in 500 hours at MacDonald's for six dollars an hour to learn how to flip hamburgers(what a joke) and many other humiliations unleashed by the jackals for the corporations and board of trade you would have the correct perspective as to who your boys stand up for and whose ideas they espouse.

Since we are somewhat off-topic, just like everybody else, I would have preferred construction of the new ferries within BC.

Having said that, the BC yards have established a market niche over the past decade in terms of retrofits and small vessel construction.

Apparently, the Washington Marine Group's proposal was $130 million in excess of the Flensburg yard.

The Washington Marine Group does not have the existing infrastructue in place and experience of, say, Todd Shipyards in Seattle. It's been well over a decade since a major vessel has been built in any BC yard.

The Flensberg entity takes on all design, construction, and delivery risks as well as provides guarantees, warranties, and penalties all in favour of BC Ferries - a very good business proposal without any political interference, which interference has previously been to the detriment of BC Ferries.

BC Ferries apparently also will undertake $100 million a year in retrofits within BC yards, notwithstanding the likelihood of future smaller vessel construction wihthin the same yards.

What disturbs me more than anything else in this matter is the NDP's promise to oppose the waiver of the $81 million federal duty.

If that's the case, and they wish to inflict financial damage on BC taxpayers (through BC Ferries), it will likely come back to haunt them.

"What disturbs me more than anything else in this matter is the NDP's promise to oppose the waiver of the $81 million federal duty."

This is money that's owed on foreign built vessels. That's the cost of exporting jobs overseas. Yes its protectionist, but last time I looked this is a Canadian Government, and they are mandated to act in the interest of all Canadians. And if you look at the Jones Act in the States, you will find that its illegal for any foreign built vessel to operate domestically within the US. The importation duty is meant to protect industries within Canada, from being unfairly undercut by foreign companies.

And the question I would be asking is why we have to pay $81 million dollars to build boats that could have been built here. Is that 81 million dollar waiver included in the savings of 130 million dollars on offshoring those jobs? If so, you then have a savings of only $49 million dollars, and that money and more could have been recouped through spending the money domestically, through the economic spinoffs, from workers working, parts being sourced etc.

The other misnomer around concerns something Larsen said about the Washington Marine Group's bid having the hulls built in China. That was one of 2 bids asked of Washington Marine by BC Ferries, a foreign built bid and a domestic bid. And Hahn has done a masterful job only talking about the one with the hulls being built in China. Smells of a setup for Washington's bids to fail, and for Hahn to have something to throw back at people who howled at those jobs going offshore.

Who is he ?

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